Encouraging News from Microsoft

[gman! 1]

Repeating your uninformed and pointless speculation doesn't make it better, especially when you continue to claim you know what Microsoft knows when you obviously don't.Other posters in this thread disagree with your claim that FS cannot run on an XBox. Remember, everyone has now accepted that there will be no FSXI(next) as a development of FSX. Whatever FS emerges may well be written for and run on XBox. If FS is only available on an XBox then people will buy it. I do not understand your claim that FS cannot run on an Xbox because it only has DL DVD drives and that this would require files to be constantly decompressed as FS runs. Files are decompressed and copied to the hard drive only once when FS is first installed. FSX requires 15Gb of free disc space to install. Xbox can have a 120Gb hard drive so there is more than enough space. Would you care to reconsider your argument?

They CANNOT I repeat CANNOT put it on the Xbox. Stop making these kind of comebacks please, I never said I knew what Microsoft was doing, but if you look at what Microsoft has been doing you can see that there is some kind of flight simulator post. Sorry to say this but your posts are kind of ignorant, it doesn't take much knowledge to figure out that MS is making some kind of flight simulator by the job listing and what Phil said. Common man use your brain! This is common sense. Stop arguing for the sake of it please. I think most people can agree with this post. I wish someone like Nick Needlham will explain the limitations with the Xbox (if he knows the internals of the Xbox) because everybody will listen to him.Also ONLY Xbox 360 ELITES have the 120GB HDD and if someone does not have a 120GB HDD they have to pay $149.99, and only a few will pay that much for that. The Xbox 360 comes in 4 different (one discontinued) models (MOST OF THE OWNERS HAVE AN XBOX PRO OR ARCADE): * Xbox 360 Premium 20GB Model (What most people have)* New Xbox 360 Premium with 60GB HDD* Xbox Arcade w/ 256 or 512MB Memory Card* Xbox 360 Elite w/ 120GB HDDNo here is the problem, first there is the limitations with the double layer DVDs. The Xbox has a 12X DL DVD reader, which is to slow for data transfer. Read speed from a DVD at this is around 16-20MB/s. To slow for a game like this. Then there is the problem with storage. If you have different models, autogen, landclass based scenery, different models of planes, AI, sounds for everything, ATC, mesh for the whole world etc. It CANNOT all fit on a DL DVD or regular DVD Which has a 7-8GB max capacity formatted (exp. UDF, ISO, etc. formatting has to be applied to a disc before anything can be put on it). I mean look at the size of FSX on your PC after it has been decompressed from the CAB files on the DVD. That is nearly cut the file sizes in half compressing the files, causing long install time and no way to run it from the DVD. Then you have the limitations of the memory on the Xbox 360. The Xbox has 512MB of GDDR3 memory THAT CAN BE SHARED WITH THE GRAPHICS CARD, which is a big NO-NO, even when you just want to load up over the middle of the Atlantic with no scenery, the Xbox will suffer, I can guarantee that. Sharing memory with the graphics card also means less memory for the game to run, trying to get a FS on Xbox would just be too time consuming and difficult to get it on such a limited amount of memory. Stutters and FPS would be so bad, and the FPS is already so variable on the PC that this would be a problem on the Xbox. GAMES ON THE XBOX 360 MUST BE ABLE TO HAVE A STEADY FRAMERATE AND THEY MUST BE ABLE TO RUN AT 30FPS @ 720p/1080i (1280x720 or 1920x1080, interlaced [the "i" in 1808i means INTERLACED and that means the screen refresh 30 times a second, the "p" means progressive in 720p and that means the screen will refresh 60 times a second [60Hz/60FPS]) MOST OF THE TIME, THIS IS NOT POSSIBLE WITH SOMETHING LIKE FS, PEOPLE CAN BARELY GET 60 FPS WITH FS2004 AND FSX SO DON'T EXPECT IThen there is the whole compression/decompression problem that I talked about a bit, which also dealt with storage space on the Xbox. For a FULL flight sim to be on the Xbox, they would not be able to fit on 1 DL DVD in the first place without HIGHLY compressible files which will render the game almost unplayable. That means the Xbox will have to read each compressed package, decompress it to STORAGE SPACE such as an HDD or Memory Card, which will take well over 1GB, then this has to be loaded into memory, and then deleted quickly to repeat the process for the scenery/world to be rendered. With the read speeds of the DVD at 12X 16-30MB per second, there is no way you will be able to do this within fractions of seconds, and you would need to be able to complete that whole operation with milliseconds, so there would be no blurriness, stutters, or flying with no scenery/world. That data bus on the Xbox is also to tight. With the graphics cards we have on PCs today, the bandwidth on our graphics cards (8800GTX, 9800GTX, GTX260/280 ATi Radeon 3850/70, Radeon 4830/50/70) the memory bandwidth of the bus is around 80 GB/s (You can even downloaded GPU-Z and check this yourself). The Xbox's bandwidth to its graphics card memory is 22.4 GB/s, that is WAAAAYYYYYYY to slow for something like FS, especially with FS. There is 256GB/s memory bandwidth to the eDRAM but the eDRAM is only 10 MBs. I mean, the 360 is powerful and can run games with graphics that can blow your eyes away, but the size of FS is just to big, and the performance issues we have with are computers running FSX, that are so much more powerful than an XBox, are just to much, and FPS is too low. Then there is the problem with Xbox's storage (do not confuse this with internal memory)Like I said at the beginning there are 4 models of the Xbox.The arcade models have 256MB and 512MB memory cards, first models do come with a memory card (Notice I said MEGABYTES)The 1st Generation Premium model, which is the console with the most sales, has a 20GB HDDThe 2nd Generation Premium model, which came out like 3-4 months ago has a 60GB HDDThe Xbox Elite has a 120GB HDD, and is the most expensive model, and does not have many salesUpgrading any xbox to the 120GB costs $149, and in these times nobody is going to waste money like that (120GB HDDs on the PC are only $40-60)Keep all of this in mind and please don't forget.So lets make this easy.The Xbox 360 games are REQUIRED to run without any kind of storage medium. Just the Xbox's internal memory and the small amount of storage it has that is mostly taken up by the BIOSYou have a big problem right there, the Xbox's DVD drive reads at 12X, then you have the compressed files that need to be decompressed quickly, to a medium. There is no way you can decompress the files directly to the DVD (Not even NASA can do this), and because Xbox games are REQUIRED to run with no storage medium (The game might need a HDD required to SAVE which is written on some Xbox games, but it is REQUIRED that game run with no storage) you have no where to decompress these files to get the game running correctly with a world, scenery, autogen, etc. Also remember DVDs storage capacity is limited so there is no other option than compressed files.Yes, there are 120GB HDDs like you said, but there are REQUIREMENTS for making a game on the Xbox. The Arcade Xbox can have no storage, a 256MB memory card, or 512MB memory card, depending on the time the Xbox was bought, and the storage space is far to small for decompression or temporary storage, especially with the space that is reserved for the Xbox and other game saves. Then you have limitations with even the 1st gen Xbox Premium that was released which the most sold model, and has a 20GB HDD. First you have the formatting that is required to store data on hard drives, and on a 20GB HDD which takes up around 1-2GBs of storage space. Then you have the Xbox Dashbord with all its features, icons, sounds, avatars, etc. Leaving 14GBs of HDD space left, and this is with a BRAND SPANKIN NEW 360, no games, nothing, just the xbox and the thing included on the 20GB HDD.I don't even wanna go into the graphical problems and the problems with FS utilizing the CPU when GPU when it would be more logical and efficient, or else this would be an essay. All I'll say is the Xbox has a mid-range graphics card if you compare it with PCs today. It is 500MHz and uses the 512MB GDDR3 memory I was talking about, and it has 10MB of eDRAM, that is why Xbox can do "free AA" (which I do not want to explain because I want to get back to simming on a friday), I will just say the eDRAM helps the graphics card perform Anti aliasing (Most Xbox games have 4xAA). ATi Radeon HD38** and 48** owners have there own special type of eDRAM similar this on their graphics card PCB, but it is not utilized due to DX9/10 implementationsSo basically Xbox 360's GPU (called Xenos)

• Is made by AMD/ATi
• Features 48 unified shaders
• Only has 22GB/s bandwidth with the memory.
• Only runs at 500 MHz (pretty low)
• Shares memory with the system which is a big problem.
• Is a Mid to low range graphics solution compared to products today.So all if these problems build up and make it impossible to develop with the requirements and the hardware limitations itself.

All of these reasons combined make it VERY difficult and on the verge of impossible on developing a full FSX title on the XboxHope this long posts clarifies the problems, and these are the facts with actual data of hardware to back it up, so if you know a lot about technology, its limitations, and logic, you should know all this is true. Please do not post back with something dumb with little detail.Just a little tid bit for everyone:ATi's Xenos GPU features unified shaders. (Xbox's Xenos GPU was the FIRST GPU with unified shaders. This was one of the major features of DX10 cards, and its the reason the nVidia 7 series and ATi X1*** gfx cards and series before that were very inefficient with shaders with [vertex shaders, pixel shaders/pixel pipeline was separate]. Back then shaders could not do vertex shading and pixel shading all on the same piece of silicon, they were separate things. Vertex shaders were done on vertex shaders which were usually VERY limited, about 10 vertex shaders tops. Then there were pixel pipelines/pixel shaders that were abundant in comparison to vertex shaders. Usually there were 20-38 pixel pipelines on the BEST cards. DX10 changed all this and ATi/AMD designed the unified shaders concept in collaboration with Microsoft. The unified shaders are the reason graphics cards are so powerful today, with numerous amount of unified shaders/stream processors we have today, it makes graphics processing more efficient. Unified shaders allow GPUs to do vertex shading and pixel shading on any piece of silicon designed for shading, and this means instead of 7-14 vertex shaders on the best cards and 20-36 pixel shaders on the best cards back then, today we can have 128 unified shaders (using the nVidia Forceps 8800GTX shaders as an example.) which can use all 128 shades for vertex shading if it likes or pixel shading if it likes or it can split up the shaders with n shaders for vertex shading, n shaders for pixel shading, and/or n amounts for geometry shading (Which was introduced with DX10/unified shaders). This is the reason why there is a HUGE performance gap in between the nvidia Geforce 7 series and Geforce 8 series/Ati Radeon X1 series and ATi Radeon 2 series. This is also the reason why the Geforce 8 series/Radeon X1 series will CRUSH a Geforce 7 series/X1 series, card in Crysis (Crysis is heavily based on shading) :( (AMD also made L3 cache, the X86-64 architecture, and personal multi-core processors, which is a thing you thought Intel would have made :(, that is why the AMD was king in 2003-2005... because of innovation)

[Guest JeanLuc_]

They CANNOT I repeat CANNOT put it on the Xbox....

My 2 cents: all posts about "CANNOT" revolves around1) medium storage limitations2) system limitations (vid/sys memory size)Well, in my opinion, this is a no issue! First, FS360 could be offered in regional packs. 1 DVD per region, divide the world in 5 regions, then you have enough space on DVD for each, uncompressed.Then, there is XBL (XBox Live) and D/L content. Pretty much like I'm not forced to use the map pack for R6V2, I can opt to download it free (some are sold), and put that on my X360 hard drive. Trading my hard drive space with d/l content, I get additional maps and gameplay. Can be the same for FS360. So I get based regions on the DVDs, and I can download local/global extensions to the simulation (airport details, cities, aircraft etc...) according to my needs.Then there is a machine hardware/3d/cpu capabilities. Well, provided FS360 is developped on a new engine, optimized and not using any legacy back-compat drag-my-leg code, it certainly can fit and run on a X360 perfectly fine, with all the UBI/EA and other style visual fx. Just look at UBI HAWX, or other Combat Flight Sim on X360 and the FPS are there, the VizFX are there, the dynamics are there etc... As a matter of fact, XPlane can run on an iPhone, I don't see how a developer cannot make a Flight Sim on X360...As for controllers? well, just have CH build a Yoke360 (wireless or not), and there you go. Not different than I don't drive my X360 racing game with a joystick, I drive it with a Force Feedback wheel.Last but not least, imagine harnessing the LAN capabilities of the X360, for having an outside render done on the X360 on your big 50+" flat TV, and your LAN connected PC for panels with high res full screen gauges...Reading the thread about X360 and almost no single YES answer, you can count me in to embrace an X360 version of FS!

[mgh 89]

If you had read my last post properly you will see I was talking about the next version of FS which Microsoft could put on an Xbox if it chose.On the more general point, I have an elderly PC with a slower processor, less memory, and less hard disc capacity Than Xbox and yet can run FS9. Your argument relating to DVDs seems to assume that the contents of FS DVDs cannot be de-compressed and stored on the hard disc once on installation in the same way that is it done on PCs. The hardware is capable of this and software could cope with it.

[gman! 1]

My 2 cents: all posts about "CANNOT" revolves around1) medium storage limitations2) system limitations (vid/sys memory size)Well, in my opinion, this is a no issue! First, FS360 could be offered in regional packs. 1 DVD per region, divide the world in 5 regions, then you have enough space on DVD for each, uncompressed.Then, there is XBL (XBox Live) and D/L content. Pretty much like I'm not forced to use the map pack for R6V2, I can opt to download it free (some are sold), and put that on my X360 hard drive. Trading my hard drive space with d/l content, I get additional maps and gameplay. Can be the same for FS360. So I get based regions on the DVDs, and I can download local/global extensions to the simulation (airport details, cities, aircraft etc...) according to my needs.Then there is a machine hardware/3d/cpu capabilities. Well, provided FS360 is developped on a new engine, optimized and not using any legacy back-compat drag-my-leg code, it certainly can fit and run on a X360 perfectly fine, with all the UBI/EA and other style visual fx. Just look at UBI HAWX, or other Combat Flight Sim on X360 and the FPS are there, the VizFX are there, the dynamics are there etc... As a matter of fact, XPlane can run on an iPhone, I don't see how a developer cannot make a Flight Sim on X360...As for controllers? well, just have CH build a Yoke360 (wireless or not), and there you go. Not different than I don't drive my X360 racing game with a joystick, I drive it with a Force Feedback wheel.Last but not least, imagine harnessing the LAN capabilities of the X360, for having an outside render done on the X360 on your big 50+" flat TV, and your LAN connected PC for panels with high res full screen gauges...Reading the thread about X360 and almost no single YES answer, you can count me in to embrace an X360 version of FS!

I agree completely. The 360 definitely can run a butchered, limited area of Flight Sim with ease. No doubt about that. That is why in my posts I put the Microsoft would not be able to put a full version of flight simulator on it, due to storage, etc limitations. I guess I should have put the "full"s in bold so everyone could see it, sorry. Again, I totally agree with your post that is possible on the 360, and I own a 360 so I have seen the amazing power and graphics this small machine can produce :( :(, its VERY amazing.Buying it for the Xbox would be a whole different story for me though :(, it would depend on if they make it as good as your ideas are, and if I would be able to use some kind of custom input device similar to a mouse and keyboard. The 360 controller already has a mini keyboard but the design may not work with other products. If they do the region thing though, I might buy it, but just for fun, and not simulation. Without the whole world in one place, its not a simulation to me B) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you had read my last post properly you will see I was talking about the next version of FS which Microsoft could put on an Xbox if it chose.On the more general point, I have an elderly PC with a slower processor, less memory, and less hard disc capacity Than Xbox and yet can run FS9. Your argument relating to DVDs seems to assume that the contents of FS DVDs cannot be de-compressed and stored on the hard disc once on installation in the same way that is it done on PCs. The hardware is capable of this and software could cope with it.

My gosh, I really want to curse now but I'm holding it back, and I want to say Shut, you know what, but I won't.READ THE WHOLE POST! You obviously did not read thoroughly enough and remember the facts. I can tell by when you say "I have an elderly PC... and less hard disc capacity Than Xbox". I wrote in the post the different types of Xbox with different types of storage and NOT all are hard drives. To clarify, NOT ALL XBOXs COME/CAME WITH HARD DRIVES OR ANY TYPE OF STORAGE.Did you notice I said, MICROSOFT REQUIRES XBOX GAMES TO BE RUN WITHOUT ANY STORAGE MEDIUM, SO THIS MEANS NO HARD DRIVE, NO MEMORY CARD, NADA ZIP ZILCH! A FULL VERSION ON THE XBOX WOULD NOT BE POSSIBLE WITHOUT STORAGE MEDIUM FOR THE FILES TO BE DECOMPRESSED TO RAPIDLY. I KNOW THE XBOX 360 CAN RUN FSX IF IS JUST A LIMITED AREA WITHOUT ANY PROBLEMS, BECAUSE IT WOULD JUST GO STRAIGHT FROM THE DISC TO MEMORY. THERE MIGHT BE PROBLEMS WITH PERFORMANCE DUE THE 512MB OF MEMORY IN THE 360 BEING SHARED WITH GRAPHICS CARD, NO MATTER WHAT.MGH just stop, seriously, because what you are saying most of the time is wrong.

[mgh 89]

The Xbox API has functions to read from a DVD, write to a hard disc and read from a hard disk so Xbox has the necessary capabilty to install and run an application from the hard disc on a isuitable Xbox. Of course if Microsoft chose to do this, it would have to set the minimum hardware requirements in just the same way that it does for PCs. Note that I'm not claiming Microsoft will do this because I don't make wild claims about knowing what Microsoft knows or thinks.

[irishsooner 9]

kind of pointless talking about fs on xbox360 when rumblings have begun about xbox720 or xbox3 for 2012. seems that if a new fs came out it would be created for the new system. believe intel is doing the meat of the system and might not even use dvd media.

[gman! 1]

The Xbox API has functions to read from a DVD, write to a hard disc and read from a hard disk so Xbox has the necessary capabilty to install and run an application from the hard disc on a isuitable Xbox. Of course if Microsoft chose to do this, it would have to set the minimum hardware requirements in just the same way that it does for PCs. Note that I'm not claiming Microsoft will do this because I don't make wild claims about knowing what Microsoft knows or thinks.

I KNOW. But for the 100th time, XBOX GAMES ARE REQUIRED TO RUN WITHOUT A HARD DISK. If the game cannot run without a hard disk, then they can't sell it, simple as that. Some Xbox's did not even come with storage such as a hard disk or Xbox memory card. Also the memory cards are only 256MB and 512MB which is not enough storage to install a FULL VERSION of FS on. The 2nd most sold model of the Xbox is the Arcade model because it is cheapest. The arcade models DO NOT have a hard disc drive, and they either come with: A) No storage medium at all, B) 256 MB memory unit, or C) 512MB memory unit. Microsoft cannot just release a game that takes up all of the hard disk space on the 20GB HDD, and the install function is optional on the Xbox, it is NOT supposed to be required to install the game, unless you are downloading an expansion pack or other downloadable content off Xbox LIVE (GTA: Lost and Damned). They cannot just release an Xbox game for just the models of the hard drives, because Xbox games are REQUIRED to run without a HDD, for the last time.

kind of pointless talking about fs on xbox360 when rumblings have begun about xbox720 or xbox3 for 2012. seems that if a new fs came out it would be created for the new system. believe intel is doing the meat of the system and might not even use dvd media.

I totally agree, if we wanted a FULL version of FS on the xbox, it would probably be on the next version of Xbox, not the current one. Tech websites have been saying that Sony will use the Intel Larabee GPU in their PS4, and Microsoft will continue to stay with AMD/ATi. Now this is what the media has been saying, and I can't remember if exactly, if Sony came out and said that they are using the Larabee or if someone asked or whatever happened. Nvidia will probably be left out in the cold this time.

[rhagen 0]

The Xbox360 does not need to run the game from the DVD drive. There is an option to have the game installed onto the hard drive and run from there. The game will load much faster and during game play, any drive access will also be quicker. The game disc still needs to be in the DVD drive to verify you own the game but it will load and run off the hard drive.If Microsoft finds the rule "Xbox games are required to run without a hard drive" too limiting, in the future they may rescind the rule to allow more complex games. Or just leave the minimum hardware requirements as they are...no hard drive required but recommended. Why not. Many games have minimum requirements that are considered either unplayable or just too frustrating.The point is probably moot since the rest of the current Xbox hardware is probably not capable. Especially for me since I run multi monitors and I wouldn't want to be limited to a max resolution of only 1080. ...the next Xbox?...who knows?

[gman! 1]

The Xbox360 does not need to run the game from the DVD drive. There is an option to have the game installed onto the hard drive and run from there. The game will load much faster and during game play, any drive access will also be quicker. The game disc still needs to be in the DVD drive to verify you own the game but it will load and run off the hard drive.If Microsoft finds the rule "Xbox games are required to run without a hard drive" too limiting, in the future they may rescind the rule to allow more complex games. Or just leave the minimum hardware requirements as they are...no hard drive required but recommended. Why not. Many games have minimum requirements that are considered either unplayable or just too frustrating.The point is probably moot since the rest of the current Xbox hardware is probably not capable. Especially for me since I run multi monitors and I wouldn't want to be limited to a max resolution of only 1080. ...the next Xbox?...who knows?

Guys, you need to understand. NOT ALL XBOX's HAVE HARD DRIVES, THERE ARE 4 DIFFERENT MODELS. THE CHEAPEST VERSION OF THE XBOX DOES NOT HAVE A HARD DRIVE, THEY EITHER HAVE NO MEMORY, A 256MB MEMORY UNIT, or A 512MB MEMORY UNIT. SOME GAMES ON THE 360 MAY NEED A HARD DRIVE TO SAVE, BUT THE GAMES ARE REQUIRED TO RUN WITHOUT STORAGE MEDIA, WHICH MEANS NO HDD, NO MEMORY CARD!I KNOW WHAT THE XBOX DOES, I HAVE ONE, I KNOW THERE IS AN INSTALL FEATURE. THE INSTALL FEATURE IS PURELY OPTIONAL AND NOT MANDATORY, AGAIN, BECAUSE THE GAME MUST BE ABLE TO RUN WITHOUT ANY STORAGE MEDIA. THE MOST SOLD MODEL OF THE XBOX IS THE 20GB VERSION, AND WITH A CLEAN XBOX WITH JUST THE STUFF THAT CAME WITH THE XBOX AND NO GAMES, THERE IS ONLY 13-14GB OF FREE SPACE, A FULL VERSION OF FS WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO INSTALL ON THERE, AND THE DEVELOPERS HAVE TO TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION, OTHER GAMES THE USER MAY HAVE AND DOWNLOADABLE CONTENT, SOME OF MY GAMES USE 300MBs of SPACE FOR SAVES AND DOWNLOADABLE CONTENT, SOME GAMES LIKE OBLIVION USE EVEN MORE, AND WITH THE AMOUNT OF GAMES MOST XBOX USERS HAVE ALL THOSE SAVES AND DOWNLOADABLE CONTENT AND OTHER INSTALLs, COMBINED ALL THAT STUFF CAN EASILY SURPASS, 2GBs OF SPACE.RIGHT NOW I HAVE 6 GAMES, AND I ONLY HAVE 6.8GBs of SPACE LEFT WITH DEMOS AND ARCADE GAMES and other downloadable content. On Xbox LIVE when I compare games with most other people, they have 10+ games!! That means most people will not buy flight simulator, even if there was no requirement for games to run without a hard drive or memory unit, because they would simply not have enough space, especially when you take in mind that most sold model was the 20GB HDD. That would not be a smart move for Microsoft, although they can do it, by changing rules, but it would not bring them a lot of money, because most people would not be able to run a FULL version of FS on their 360! Simple as thatTHE ONLY TIME THE HDD OR MEMORY UNIT IS USED, IS FOR DOWNLOADABLE CONTENT, OR FOR EXTRAS ON THE DISC, THAT ARE NOT A FUNDAMENTAL PART OF THE GAME. IT IS ALSO USED FOR THE OPTIONAL ABILITY TO INSTALL GAMES, TO SPEED THEM UP, OR REDUCE LOAD TIMES. THE GAME MUST BE ABLE TO RUN WITHOUT ANY STORAGE UNIT. NOT ALL XBOX'S HAVE HARD DRIVES FOR LIKE THE 10,000 TIME.ABOUT 20% OF THOSE 28 MILLION XBOX UNITS SOLD ARE ARCADE UNITS, WHICH MEANS NO HDD, NO MEMORY UNIT IN SOME CASES, OR A 256MB/512MB MEMORY UNIT!

[boshar 6]

Guys, you need to understand. NOT ALL XBOX's HAVE HARD DRIVES, THERE ARE 4 DIFFERENT MODELS. THE CHEAPEST VERSION OF THE XBOX DOES NOT HAVE A HARD DRIVE, THEY EITHER HAVE NO MEMORY, A 256MB MEMORY UNIT, or A 512MB MEMORY UNIT. SOME GAMES ON THE 360 MAY NEED A HARD DRIVE TO SAVE, BUT THE GAMES ARE REQUIRED TO RUN WITHOUT STORAGE MEDIA, WHICH MEANS NO HDD, NO MEMORY CARD!

Boy you can scream but keep repeating your point doesn't make it more valid.There are lots of flight games that just run from DVD. The HDD requirement is nonsense. Just a rewrite of the 3d engine. Limit the world / view distance and you have FS light. Even if it requires a HDD. Just sell the game with a HDD prepacked. (its been done before with other consoles).You only se an X-Box FS as a continuation of the current franchise. If it ever gets released on Live / X-Box it will be a different game with other strenghts and weaknesses then the current FS-X. For instance. Google earth shows us you can do flight with 3d streaming satelite imagery. Not a Kb of that is stored localy. Just addbeter flight dynamics. A multi player option and ATC (Hosted on the live network) and presto VFR heaven. Beter then FS-X (with limitations in expendablility and resolution of course)

[blave 0]

Gman,Please stop shouting - I'm already almost deaf in one ear. Yes we get it that you're good with HTML tags...Dave B.

[n4gix 4,947]

The entire discussion is a moot issue. Whatever is released eventually will be -first- a "PC LIVE" title. Period. If any sort of X-Box version is ever released, it would be long after the intial release, and would be a modified port of the "PC LIVE" version.

[mgh 89]

NOT ALL XBOX's HAVE HARD DRIVES, THERE ARE 4 DIFFERENT MODELS. THE CHEAPEST VERSION OF THE XBOX DOES NOT HAVE A HARD DRIVE, THEY EITHER HAVE NO MEMORY, A 256MB MEMORY UNIT, or A 512MB MEMORY UNIT. SOME GAMES ON THE 360 MAY NEED A HARD DRIVE TO SAVE, BUT THE GAMES ARE REQUIRED TO RUN WITHOUT STORAGE MEDIA, WHICH MEANS NO HDD, NO MEMORY CARD!

Not all PCs have a high enough specification to run FSX. That doesn't mean that FSX can't run on a PC. Equally, the fact that FS can't be run on a minimum specification Xbox doesn't mean it can't be run on Xbox.Requirements can be changed. There is no physical reason why the hard disc can't be used as I've suggested.We are discussing the future, not the past.

[rhagen 0]

Guys, you need to understand. NOT ALL XBOX's HAVE HARD DRIVES, ...

I DO understand that! The rule that "games are required to run without storage media" is not a federal mandate. MS may determine that this rule is too restrictive for more complex games.

[gman! 1]

I DO understand that! The rule that "games are required to run without storage media" is not a federal mandate. MS may determine that this rule is too restrictive for more complex games.

That would not be a smart move for Microsoft, although they can do it, by changing rules, but it would not bring them a lot of money, because most people would not be able to run a FULL version of FS on their 360! Simple as that

I know guys if you read my post carefully, I stated Microsoft can change the rules, and like the other guy said, the game can come prepackaged with a hard drive, although no developer has done that yet, possibly due to the fact that a 60GB HDD for the 360 is 99 dollars, and a 120GB HDD is 149 dollars. Outrageous prices. I think Microsoft can get more sales on the PC than on the Xbox, so for what I have been saying for a very long time, since day 1, FS will most likely NOT come on the Xbox.

Not all PCs have a high enough specification to run FSX. That doesn't mean that FSX can't run on a PC. Equally, the fact that FS can't be run on a minimum specification Xbox doesn't mean it can't be run on Xbox.Requirements can be changed. There is no physical reason why the hard disc can't be used as I've suggested.We are discussing the future, not the past.

Computers that do not meet the minimum requirements may run FSX, but they have to lower sliders, and they will most likely have problems with blurriness, stuttering, decreased autogen, etc. in other words not the full experience. If there is no full experience on the Xbox, then I do not think it will sell well and it won't sell as well as on the PC.

The entire discussion is a moot issue. Whatever is released eventually will be -first- a "PC LIVE" title. Period. If any sort of X-Box version is ever released, it would be long after the intial release, and would be a modified port of the "PC LIVE" version.

This is true and is what I have been trying to state in my posts. If a full version of FS is ported to the Xbox, it would have to be modified/butchered, to get the best experience possible. They cannot just do what the other developers do when the port from Xbox to PC or PC to Xbox with the XNA SDK, with little modification. FS from PC to Xbox would need a significant amount of modification, since it was made for PC from the start, and it would most likely take a VERY long time to do that.

Gman,Please stop shouting - I'm already almost deaf in one ear. Yes we get it that you're good with HTML tags...Dave B.

Sorry about the CAPS, bold, and underline but it grabs the readers attention, so they actually read the whole post and not bits and parts of it, and is usable for a reason. I wasn't trying to show off BBCode, which anybody can use easily with the new forum system.Here is someone on a different thread, that has some knowledge and common sense about Xbox and flight sim, also all the other users have some common sense, because they know FS on the Xbox would be a horrible experience and will never buy it.http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?s=&...t&p=1544666 <-- Very good point.And some other posts, with people that have some sense...http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?s=&...t&p=1545775http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?s=&...t&p=1544307 http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?s=&...t&p=1543983 <--- Very true, would be too time consuming for something so simple...http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?s=&...t&p=1541833 <--- I think most of the FS user base is like this guy, don't have a console, and don't like 'em.