Various Issues: Memory, Display, installation order

[Sigmar 5]

Why a new topic in the General Forum?Because I find it quite impossible to associate any of the following to any individual airplane and/or any particular threads under any of those (and please do not prompt me to "do a search" - this actually is the result of multiple searches, as over the past days I have spent approximately three hours of searching various PMDG fora for every one hour of flying, and I am fed up with it by now!)1. PMDG products and installation order:It has been mentioned here in several forums on several different occasions that there is no particular installation order when using multiple PMDG products (747X, MD11X, J41). While this may be true for download applications, it certainly is not true for CD/DVD versions by Aerosoft. 747 first, then all add-on liveries, then MD11 and all add-on liveries. I just had an MD11X with black CRT screens (with just a green x visible) due to conflicting/corrupted Visual2005/2008 installations.2. DX9 versus DX10 preview with FSX and NVidia graphicsUnder FSX (SP1 and SP2), Vista 64 bit, 8 GB RAM and NVidia GTX285 graphics and FSX in DX9 mode I get a stroboscopically flickering screen when initializing the MD11X (NOT with 747X nor J41 either, so it is NOT a hardware/cooling issue as has repeatedly been suspected here), followed by normal operation. This does NOT occur with FSX in DX10 preview mode; in DX10 mode intialization is smooth. It has been suspected in various posts here that this may be specific to NVidia cards.3. Stroboscopically flickering screens...... which require FSX to be terminated also tend to occur after longer flights when either accessing an FSX menu (to set weather conditions for landing) or when accessing other programs (such as FlightSim Commander) to identify the proper gate and required taxi routing after landing (occurred on my last KORD-PANC flight with a PMDG 744X freighter, after leaving the runway at PANC). Never occurred with J41 (even with FS Commander running in the background), so -- again! -- it cannot be hardware-specific and must be product-specific or memory-specific.4. FSX 2 GB memory issues under Vista 64bit?This brings me to the final issue: Vista 64 bit, being a 64 bit OS, can maximize the memory made available to FSX by allocating as much to FSX as FSX requires, all other applications (such as FS Commander) being allocated memory resources from the whole 8 GB pool available on my system. FSX itself, being a 32 bit application, by itself cannot use (or address) more than 2 GB of memory, unless told to do so by a tweak which I have found mentioned here a couple of times. More detailed instructions on that tweak usually mention that it is useless under a 64 bit OS -- which I fail to understand, as FSX, even when running under a 64 bit OS, still is a 32 bit application, isn't it?! I would be grateful if any really knowledgeable person could enlighten me on this. Hard and verifiable facts, please, not just suspicions or guesses.5. There probably is not one single cause for all of those issues, but it is a fact that NEVER since I got interested in sim flying (and that was in 1990!) the environment (OS, FSX and add-ons) was so full of bugs, problems and "issues". I am approaching the point of regretting the move to either Vista or FSX (or both).6. and finally: As a paying customer, I am entitled to solutions, not just vague guesses how to find those -- if any -- on my own.Sigmar(ASUS P7P55D Motherboard, Intel QuadCore Processor, 8 GB RAM, nVidia GTX 285 [latest drivers], Saitek Yoke, Throttle quadrant and Rudder pedals, Vista 64 bit OS; PMDG MD11X, 744X, J41; F1 ATR 72, Digital Aviation Cheyenne; discontinued to use Digital Aviation F70/100 and LevelD 767; and some 600 hrs and 800 missions on general aviation aircraft in real life).

[FLEX1978 373]

Wow, so much effort in your post and you didn't even read the basic rules in this forum. Do yourself a favour and please sign your real name in your posts. After such a long post I wouldn't want to see it get locked :)

[Leffe 4]

4. FSX 2 GB memory issues under Vista 64bit?This brings me to the final issue: Vista 64 bit, being a 64 bit OS, can maximize the memory made available to FSX by allocating as much to FSX as FSX requires, all other applications (such as FS Commander) being allocated memory resources from the whole 8 GB pool available on my system. FSX itself, being a 32 bit application, by itself cannot use (or address) more than 2 GB of memory, unless told to do so by a tweak which I have found mentioned here a couple of times. More detailed instructions on that tweak usually mention that it is useless under a 64 bit OS -- which I fail to understand, as FSX, even when running under a 64 bit OS, still is a 32 bit application, isn't it?! I would be grateful if any really knowledgeable person could enlighten me on this. Hard and verifiable facts, please, not just suspicions or guesses.Sigmar(ASUS P7P55D Motherboard, Intel QuadCore Processor, 8 GB RAM, nVidia GTX 285 [latest drivers], Saitek Yoke, Throttle quadrant and Rudder pedals, Vista 64 bit OS; PMDG MD11X, 744X, J41; F1 ATR 72, Digital Aviation Cheyenne; discontinued to use Digital Aviation F70/100 and LevelD 767; and some 600 hrs and 800 missions on general aviation aircraft in real life).

I can

[Gary A 8]

Why a new topic in the General Forum?Because I find it quite impossible to associate any of the following to any individual airplane and/or any particular threads under any of those (and please do not prompt me to "do a search" - this actually is the result of multiple searches, as over the past days I have spent approximately three hours of searching various PMDG fora for every one hour of flying, and I am fed up with it by now!)

Sigmar signing your full name is a requirement of posting on this forum.I understand you say you are fed up however with what exactly eludes me. You make more statements below than ask questions.

1. PMDG products and installation order:It has been mentioned here in several forums on several different occasions that there is no particular installation order when using multiple PMDG products (747X, MD11X, J41). While this may be true for download applications, it certainly is not true for CD/DVD versions by Aerosoft. 747 first, then all add-on liveries, then MD11 and all add-on liveries. I just had an MD11X with black CRT screens (with just a green x visible) due to conflicting/corrupted Visual2005/2008 installations.

I have heard or read of no requirement to install the redistributables in any particular order and consequently have not read that such failure causes any issues. If following the order that you say worked for you then be grateful. It could have been attributed to numerous other issues aside from anything related to install order.

2. DX9 versus DX10 preview with FSX and NVidia graphicsUnder FSX (SP1 and SP2), Vista 64 bit, 8 GB RAM and NVidia GTX285 graphics and FSX in DX9 mode I get a stroboscopically flickering screen when initializing the MD11X (NOT with 747X nor J41 either, so it is NOT a hardware/cooling issue as has repeatedly been suspected here), followed by normal operation. This does NOT occur with FSX in DX10 preview mode; in DX10 mode intialization is smooth. It has been suspected in various posts here that this may be specific to NVidia cards.

I experience no such issues and use a Nvidia card. It is more than likely attributable to use of Vista or your installation of FSX to Vista as anything else. I use XP-64.

3. Stroboscopically flickering screens...... which require FSX to be terminated also tend to occur after longer flights when either accessing an FSX menu (to set weather conditions for landing) or when accessing other programs (such as FlightSim Commander) to identify the proper gate and required taxi routing after landing (occurred on my last KORD-PANC flight with a PMDG 744X freighter, after leaving the runway at PANC). Never occurred with J41 (even with FS Commander running in the background), so -- again! -- it cannot be hardware-specific and must be product-specific or memory-specific.

If you said Vista specific (my use of the word Vista is taken to also include W7) you may have had me. Again I use XP-64 and experience none of these issues so that tells me that it is not a global product issue related to PMDG.

4. FSX 2 GB memory issues under Vista 64bit?This brings me to the final issue: Vista 64 bit, being a 64 bit OS, can maximize the memory made available to FSX by allocating as much to FSX as FSX requires, all other applications (such as FS Commander) being allocated memory resources from the whole 8 GB pool available on my system. FSX itself, being a 32 bit application, by itself cannot use (or address) more than 2 GB of memory, unless told to do so by a tweak which I have found mentioned here a couple of times. More detailed instructions on that tweak usually mention that it is useless under a 64 bit OS -- which I fail to understand, as FSX, even when running under a 64 bit OS, still is a 32 bit application, isn't it?! I would be grateful if any really knowledgeable person could enlighten me on this. Hard and verifiable facts, please, not just suspicions or guesses.

Use of 8GB Ram in your system is actually detrimental to the performance of FSX as an fyi. I would only use 4Gb and preferably 2x2GB.Not sure what you are asking here? There are no 2GB limitations specific to Vista that I am aware. The 2GB issue relates to any 32bit Operating system or any 64b Operating system. This only applies if not using FSX with SP2 or Acceleration installed or if using FS9.The confusion surrounding memory usually relates to confusing physical memory (Ram, in your case 8GB) and Virtual Address Space which is virtual memory the system uses. Keep these two straight and the world will be much easier place to live in.Any 32bit software like FSX or FS Commander (if 32b) is only cable of accessing 4GB of physical memory regardless if using a 64b OS and regardless that you are using 8GB RAM. The

[Gary A 8]

Vista 64-bit SP1 however, needs to be patch, to handle more than 2GB of memory, just as the older XP-64 bit needs./ Leffe

Almost Leffe, it has nothing to do with the Operating system. It is only for (in this case) FSX without SP2 or Acceleration and FS9. Not related to Vista or to XP in anyway.That needed to be corrected so people with Vista or XP were not trying to patch something not required.

[Leffe 4]

Almost Leffe, it has nothing to do with the Operating system. It is only for (in this case) FSX without SP2 or Acceleration and FS9. Not related to Vista or to XP in anyway.That needed to be corrected so people with Vista or XP were not trying to patch something not required.

Hmmm, was it not that I said? "but if you have Vista 64-bit SP2 or Win7 64-bit you don

[Gary A 8]

Hmmm, was it not that I said? "but if you have Vista 64-bit SP2 or Win7 64-bit you don

[Leffe 4]

Not quite, it has nothing to do with Vista or XP or W7.

I already knew that!, but maybe I have a difficulty to express myself in English./ Leffe

[Tabs 2,790]

1. If you want to be absolutely certain, install things in the order in which they were released. 747-400, MD-11, J41. It really should not matter though, I've gone in the exact opposite direction before and I've seen no issues at all.2. The initial load up period with the MD-11 is a panel initialization count down where we set up a whole bunch of parameters on the panel and in FSX - this is fully mentioned in the manual. I believe the flickering has to do with the exact settings you're using on the video card, I remember seeing it as well back when I used Nvidia. It's nothing to worry about and it'll stop after the initialization is over. Pretty sure it doesn't happen in DX10 just because a lot of the video card functions (certain types of AA etc) don't work under DX10. I do not recommend running DX10 mode, it adds almost nothing in exchange for a huge performance hit.3. What exactly are you doing when you see this? Are you using Alt-Tab? (If so, don't there is a long standing bug between FS and the Windows video system/drivers that makes it impossible to use Alt-Tab - use Alt-Enter instead, which switches between full screen and windowed modes) I've personally never seen the sim crash in this way.4. As long as you've patched FSX up to SP2 or installed the Acceleration addon (do not do both, it's either one or the other), this is not an issue, the FSX exe is already large address aware. If you're running FSX SP2 or Acceleration in a 64-bit OS, that's as good as you can do for memory management.5. Personally I think Win7 is the OS to use here. I've been completely happy with it since the RC versions even. I'm not saying this is the cause of your issues by the way, I just think it's a much better OS than Vista was.6. You're not "entitled" to solutions for problems that aren't the result of our products. Nothing you've mentioned here has a PMDG product as the root cause, they're all related to the Windows OS subsystem, video drivers, or FSX itself.

[Sigmar 5]

Hello,thanks to everybody for those useful comments (especially on Vista 64 and memory issues - my OS is Vista 64bit SP2, so no memory patch should be required) and links... indeed I made more statements rather than asking questions right away as I felt I had not yet had enough information to precisely identify the problem/s and ask the proper questions.By now I am fairly certain that the key problem is nVidia and DX9 vs DX10 preview mode. I always had problems under DX9 with switching applications (ALT + TAB) - sometimes it worked, then again it did not... After trying DX10 I can confirm what I read somewehere else in this forum, that certain nVidia cards (such as my GTX 275, driver version 8.16.11.9107 dated 27 Sept 2009) under DX10 preview mode do not react at all to ALT + TAB, but always work fine with ALT + ENTER, switching to window mode and back to full screen mode. After changing to window mode and minimizing FSX, I was able to switch applications as I wished, pause FSX to look up something in the MD11 manuals, connect FS Commander to FSX while flying the MD11F from KMSP to KEWR, alternating between 2D and 3D cockpits, working the FMC, finally performing an automatic landing on RWY22L at Newark while watching the touchdown from Tower view -- in short, doing everything to really challenge the system and RAM in particular. No issues whatsoever, system and FSX perfectly stable with nice frame rates (up to 60 in 2D, 35 to 45 in 3D). (So my FSX setup can't be all that bad, after all :( )Moreover, the issues with position lights disappearing in DX10 mode as reported by some people here did not occur with the MD11 -- all lights were displayed as they were supposed to ; I DID however notice flickering textures (mainly at TWY/RWY intersections) as reported by others here.Interestingly, on the J41 external lights were NOT properly displayed on the external model under DX10, with red/green at the wingtips missing and white on the tail being not visible from behind but being visible from forward and ahead. My approach thus will be to run DX9 when flying the small turboprops (PA31, ATR, J41) and DX10 when flying the heavies. I have yet to check whether the Queen runs as smoothly under DX10 as the MD11 does, but if it does this may be a workable solution for nVidia users.I hope this thread is helpful to other 744 and MD11 captains and can easily be accessed by the search functions. These problems seem to be quite frequent, and common denominators can hardly be found. This seems to confirm my earlier statement: FSX and Vista have made things worse, contrary to all P/R and marketing bla-bla we are being exposed to...And finally @ Ryan: I did not say that I am entitled to get a solution *by PMDG*, nor did I say that your products caused the problems (I was fairly sure that they do not by themselves, and if so, only in interaction with FSX, the OS and/or graphics). I do still believe, however, that in general customers (especially of operating systems and simulators) should not be expected to be engineers in order to make these products run as marketing promises they will. Otherwise I expect to get paid by Microsoft, rather than paying them. I repeat here what I wrote in another forum (on a product I have since discontinued to use because of its poor quality, suggesting PMDG products instead...): If I were to deliver such products in my professional life, I would not survive.Sigmar Stadlmeier (based near LOWL/Austria)(And sorry for not using my *full* real name)

[Guest 413X3]

I have out of memory errors, texture losses, crashes to desktop, etc. all with vista x64. According to the famous Nick_N, that is caused by Vista and its incorrect memory handling. Same with W7. I am going to install xp x64 and see if that cures my problems. I can't fly a long flight without one of those issues occurring anymore.

[Gary A 8]

I have out of memory errors, texture losses, crashes to desktop, etc. all with vista x64. According to the famous Nick_N, that is caused by Vista and its incorrect memory handling. Same with W7. I am going to install xp x64 and see if that cures my problems. I can't fly a long flight without one of those issues occurring anymore.

Please see this: http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?showtopic=245586Good luck finding XP-64SP2 there becoming as rare as hen teeth.

[Turbine777 13]

Please see this: http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?showtopic=245586Good luck finding XP-64SP2 there becoming as rare as hen teeth.

What ever do you mean Gary?If it is Hen Teeth you seek, then look no further than my EBAY Page here :(

[Gary A 8]

What ever do you mean Gary?If it is Hen Teeth you seek, then look no further than my EBAY Page here :(

LOL!, Dan I had no idea. See live and learn yet another day today. The beauty of the forum and the power of the collective minds. I am humbled. :(

[sargeski 16]

Please see this: http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?showtopic=245586Good luck finding XP-64SP2 there becoming as rare as hen teeth.

CompUSA still sells OEM Xp x64 Professional and it is SP2. www.compusa.comRegards,Bob Modrowski