Encouraging News from Microsoft

[mgh 89]

The entire discussion is a moot issue. Whatever is released eventually will be -first- a "PC LIVE" title. Period. If any sort of X-Box version is ever released, it would be long after the intial release, and would be a modified port of the "PC LIVE" version.

In a state of ignorance about game development, I found the following interesting:Describes how Game Studio facilitates developing a game that will run on multiple platforms. The XNA Framework makes developing a game with rich play on any Microsoft platform easy. Even better, once your game works on one platform, it can run on any other platform supported by the XNA Framework, using the same base source code with minimal changes. For example, the same XNA Framework game could be built three ways: the first to be played on a desktop computer running Windows, the second to be downloaded to an Xbox 360, and a third to load onto a Zune device.http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd282466.aspx

[gman! 1]

In a state of ignorance about game development, I found the following interesting:Describes how Game Studio facilitates developing a game that will run on multiple platforms. The XNA Framework makes developing a game with rich play on any Microsoft platform easy. Even better, once your game works on one platform, it can run on any other platform supported by the XNA Framework, using the same base source code with minimal changes. For example, the same XNA Framework game could be built three ways: the first to be played on a desktop computer running Windows, the second to be downloaded to an Xbox 360, and a third to load onto a Zune device.http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd282466.aspx

Finally you are understanding this. FS was not developed with the XNA SDK, so they cannot port it as easily as they could if they used XNA. XNA is not really devloped for such a complex game like this though, it is mainly focused towards developers looking to make a simple game, so this would make it difficult for MS to make a good flight sim for Xbox.

[mgh 89]

...this would make it difficult for MS to make a good flight sim for Xbox.

Difficult YES: impossible NO. That has been my point throughout that Microsoft could put a good/full Flight Simulator on Xbox if it wanted to.

[gman! 1]

Difficult YES: impossible NO. That has been my point throughout that Microsoft could put a good/full Flight Simulator on Xbox if it wanted to.

Remember, the world revolves around money. If the investment on FS on the Xbox will not give them as much revenue as FS on the PC, they will most likely not do it, or wait for the next Xbox. Also I highly doubt FS on the Xbox would be good, in most people's terms, with the limits of using the 360 controller for all inputs. I mean, think of how you would even start the engine or control mixture, and other things that can just be done with a mouse.

[mgh 89]

Remember, the world revolves around money. If the investment on FS on the Xbox will not give them as much revenue as FS on the PC, they will most likely not do it, or wait for the next Xbox. Also I highly doubt FS on the Xbox would be good, in most people's terms, with the limits of using the 360 controller for all inputs. I mean, think of how you would even start the engine or control mixture, and other things that can just be done with a mouse.

At least we now agree that flight Simulator can be put on Xbox. Whther or not it will be is a commercial judgement for Microsoft. To put it perspective, in these forums it seems agreed in these forums that Microsoft sold about 1 million copies of FSX during 2008 in the US earning say US$20-30 million. It is reported that in the same period Microsoft sold 4.7m Xboxes earning $2.7 billion and about 48M Xbox games earning US$2.7 billion.http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3906...s_december_.phpAs they say, follow the money!

[n4gix 4,947]

For example, the same XNA Framework game could be built three ways: the first to be played on a desktop computer running Windows, the second to be downloaded to an Xbox 360, and a third to load onto a Zune device.[/i]

Very interesting. Now perhaps one of the more likely reasons for abandoning the path that ACES was following has been explicated. In order to facilitate such a radical change in the core platform, a completly new approach based on XNA Framework is required.

[mgh 89]

Very interesting. Now perhaps one of the more likely reasons for abandoning the path that ACES was following has been explicated. In order to facilitate such a radical change in the core platform, a completly new approach based on XNA Framework is required.

It seem rational to me too. The skills needed to develop in XNA are unlikely to be the same as those for C(++).

[MatthewS 761]

It seem rational to me too. The skills needed to develop in XNA are unlikely to be the same as those for C(++).

Maybe, but do you think XNA magically does flight, terrain, ATC (etc) modeling. To throw away all the ACES talent simply because they might need to skill up on the XNA paradigm doesn't make sense. XNA is simply a different "hammer" to the GDI (?) development of FSX. You don't get a new carpenter simply because you want him to use a different hammer. You let him spend some time learning how to use the new hammer and then get on with his work.

[n4gix 4,947]

Maybe, but do you think XNA magically does flight, terrain, ATC (etc) modeling. To throw away all the ACES talent simply because they might need to skill up on the XNA paradigm doesn't make sense.

What has given you the idea that MS threw "away all the ACES talent?" They weren't "fired," only the projects -and hence their positions- were eliminated. I know that might seem like a "distinction without a difference," but it is real enough. Everyone impacted has the opportunity to interview for any open position created for the entirely new team being formed to build the new product (whatever that might turn out to be)... :(

[MatthewS 761]

What has given you the idea that MS threw "away all the ACES talent?" They weren't "fired," only the projects -and hence their positions- were eliminated. I know that might seem like a "distinction without a difference," but it is real enough. Everyone impacted has the opportunity to interview for any open position created for the entirely new team being formed to build the new product (whatever that might turn out to be)... :(

The ACES people were not fired? So they are all still working for Microsoft in different roles? So what's all the fuss about these ACES people being unemployed? If they all still have jobs then what's the big deal? Here I was thinking they lost their jobs, i.e were fired.edit: Oh i see what you mean... same difference, they all lost their jobs.

[gman! 1]

The ACES people were not fired? So they are all still working for Microsoft in different roles? So what's all the fuss about these ACES people being unemployed? If they all still have jobs then what's the big deal? Here I was thinking they lost their jobs, i.e were fired.edit: Oh i see what you mean... same difference, they all lost their jobs.

They lost there jobs, but there is a NEW ACES team, that is making some kind of flight simulation product. It is a secret and no one knows if it is still going to be of the Flight Simulator Branding, or if it will have a different name, focus, etc. All we know is that Phil Taylor, former ACES employ, said that there is a new ACES team, a job position for flight simulation was up for grabs at the Microsoft website AFTER the ACES employees were fired, and that Paul, a guy at the old aces studio, is in the new ACES studio, along with some other people that got cut.Check these links.http://members.microsoft.com/careers/searc...;SortOrder=Desc <-- Job position posted I think 6 days after ACES team was cut. This was the first piece of evidence, that MS FS was not dead.http://paul-flightsimguy.spaces.live.com/B...!1246.entryhttp://www.futuregpu.org/2009/02/end-of-er...re-updates.html

Our technology makes available entire continents - potentially the entire planet - for a detailed and dynamic 3D experience. We are looking for a Project Art Lead who can define, refine, and extend the visual elements while balancing the need for fun and approachability for a broad set of users.

Evidence they might use the VERY awesome technology found in Virtual Earth, its loads better than google earth, I'm sorry to say that. The different types of things it can be used for is amazing, and the 3D version has VERY detailed autogen that I just demoed today. I'll post links for the Virtual Earth 3D program. Go to San Fransisco, Chicago, or any major city and you will see why I hope so badly this is in the next FS. Go here: http://maps.live.com/ and then download whatever is required. Remember to close your browser before running this. After all required software is installed go to 3D and go to any major city using the bird's eye view. Simply stunning!Scan this blog for the wide ranges of applications Virtual earth is used for. Microsoft has designed its 2nd most useful program next to Flight Simulator!Just found this... something here is verrrry fishy, and this gives a BIG clue. XNA, which is needed for LIVE development, and then the cut of the team, then the job position for an art lead, that says lots of stuff about designing the earth for a flight sim and the vast resources Microsoft has with the modeling of earth available (cough... Microsoft Virtual Earth, cough.. cough...)http://blogs.msdn.com/virtualearth/archive...evelopment.aspxAfter all this, I am guessing flight sim will have some things from virtual earth (probably on the DVD/Blu-ray disc, whatever they use), and it will use Games for Windows - LIVE (Check the job listing for Games for Windows - LIVE. LIVE is NOT a bad thing at all, don't get me started on it again. please :()

Join the team responsible for building the most fun and rewarding flying experiences available on Games for Windows Live.

Those evil minions at Microsoft had it planned since day 1, fooled us and the former ACES team badly!! They outsmarted us for a while, but I think we know what the may be doing now... *Evil Laugh* MUHAHAHAHAHAHA. Be afraid... be very afraid... :( of that big corporation, trying to conquer everything.

[cklink 0]

I see there also looking for a new PM to head up the team ...."Join the team responsible for building the most fun and rewarding flying experiences available on Games for Windows Live. Microsoft Game Studios is looking for a veteran Lead Program Manager/Producer to help lead the development of a new broad-attraction flight-oriented game on the PC."http://members.microsoft.com/careers/searc...;SortOrder=DescThe "a new broad-attraction flight-oriented game" says alot. Woo ho - can't wait to fly the Red Baron from the default tail camera shooting balloons. :( Let us have our simulation that has made them money and us happy over the years, and crank out the arcade crap as well if you must. But don't replace the simulation with it ... Regards'Garett

[Guest Phantoms]

When I first read about ACEs being done away with and MS wanting to go another direction the very first thing that came to mind was the news article about MS pay-to-play patent being rejected that was circulating last month. Kind of shows what direction Microsoft wants to head in, don't you think.Then you read stuff such as

"Join the team responsible for building the most fun and rewarding flying experiences available on Games for Windows Live. Microsoft Game Studios is looking for a veteran Lead Program Manager/Producer to help lead the development of a new broad-attraction flight-oriented game on the PC."

and you just feel FSX may be the last true FS that's a sim. It's sickening when something that fits you perfect is dumbed down so they can sell it to more people, but that's what happens now days. This is why I hate EA, in fact won't ever buy a EA title. They get exclusive licenses to franchises and turn them into arcade games. Just look how they ruined the Nascar sim that Papyrus made. An actual sim, not an arcade game. EA bought the exclusive rights to Nascar for 10 years and proceeded to churn out arcade junk year after year. They've done it with almost every arena they've entered. This is where the most money is at, but it's sickening for those that want more. I feel that MS is heading in the same direction.

[n4gix 4,947]

A small point of order for clarification. "ACES" was the name of the studio that developed the last three FS titles, and was working on the core-platform, ESP, TrainSim2 and FSvNext. "ACES" studio was abolished.The new team being assembled has no name yet, as far as I can determine, but of course are working under the ageis of the MS Game Studio division of Microsoft. :(

[mgh 89]

...something that fits you perfect ...

If it fits you perfect why do you need another version? Just carry on using FSX.

sell it to more people,

That's what firms do. If a firm decides it can get better returns by adopting a different strategy then that's what it will do.