SKAI Traffic - Is It Kosher?

[Swoop 0]

A friend of mine gave me a cd today with a traffic program named SKAI Traffic and I can't find much information on it. It appears in a bunch of torrents but is directed to a Wingz of Silence web site that doesn't have any information about it.Is this a good AI package and OK to install in FS9?Mark

[fwerff 70]

Oh boy... you can expect some comments about this one...skAI is quite controversial. The "author" basically combined dozens of freeware AI addons he gathered from various sources, among which Avsim.All double entries were removed and all compiled into one hugh package.The problem is that the author of skAI did not ask permission to all independed developers of the AI addons he used. This is in conflict with copyrights and stuff like that.You should decide yourself if you want to install it on your system. It's a single install for basically global-covered AI traffic. The downside is the above mentioned copyrights issue.As far as I know, it does not carry virusses or spyware....Regards,Frank

[Swoop 0]

So there's no issues with the install, it's just a bunch of AI that was free in the first place? I wonder how that plays out...free AI that is re-packaged and then given away for free...hummm...interesting. Does anyone know which free AI packages are in the install? Maybe I've installed them already. It would be nice to hear from the AI developers. Maybe they could chime in and provide their point of view on this.Mark

[JSkorna 137]

Hi Mark,Based on principle I would not use it. There are other options out there that are free and legal. The AI folks shared their opinions a long time ago! World-of-AI is one very good source.

[Swoop 0]

Jim, illegal implies that you're stealing something, criminal behavior with intent. In this case, it appears to be more of a copyright infringement, at best, since the software is free in the first place. That's civil, not criminal.That being said, I have a tendency to agree with you based on principle. Much of the software I've written has been copied, borrowed, and down right plagiarized. I remember creating a huge data loading procedure for one organization and then seeing it being used else where. But the big difference is that I was paid to write it so they get to use it as they see fit.Being a software engineer, (since the late 70's), I do support the development community, although just one little wrinkle, how does one buy a package when it's free already? Mark

[Swoop 0]

Well folks, it seems that I have many of the packages already installed on my system. I looked into this a bit more and discovered that SKAI consists of WOAI, The Fruit Stand, AI Ardvark, and many other of the freeware AI stuff. Now while it might be easy to use the SKAI install, I personally would rather go through the proper channels to get the stuff if that's what the AI developers want. I mean after all, it is there software and they were kind enough to provide it for free.One thing I'd love to see is a comparable product from the AI developers too. Something that would allow us lowly simmers to easily install an entire group of AI packages from all of the cool AI sites. But that is wishful thinking I guess :)Mark

[Guest lgvpilot1]

Hi MarkIt is indeed a shame that the author of SKai traffic did not seek out permissions after all the trouble of putting it together.I noticed in the last version they/he/she went to the trouble of adding the Shockwave lights config for every aircraft as an option which in itself must have been a fair bit of work !!As far as using Skai , personally all I can suggest is to do a search and I think you will find It has been discussed many times You then have the option to way up the pros and cons and decide what you feel is right .I suppose a couple of things to consider would be the fact that you already have AI installed , will there be duplicates??How recent is the AI ? This is one of the major reasons why the guys at WOAI and such dont do all in one installers , it would be a massive headache to keep it up to date.Worst case , A corrupted AI texture can cause chaos , and good luck finding that needle in a haystack were it to happen after dumping 4 gig of traffic on your harddrive .Bottom line is it is your choice , the only bad things I have read about SKai is the way it was put together and distributed , not how it performs Mark (Another one) :(

[Swoop 0]

Thanks for the advice Mark. I agree with both you and Jim on this matter. I think that Jim is a bit more militant sometimes because he's got that whole technical support stuff going on, but both of you guys are right.To dump 4gb of AI at the same time might prove interesting when something goes amiss and WOAI, (along with the rest of the AI community), if they don't recommend it then it should probably be so. Plus respecting ones copyright is really important.Jim, if you're still listening...I'm not going to install the behemoth AI :)Mark

[Mike... 7]

Jim, illegal implies that you're stealing something, criminal behavior with intent. In this case, it appears to be more of a copyright infringement, at best, since the software is free in the first place. That's civil, not criminal.

Illegal = against the law. Period. Copyright infringement = against the law = illegal. The fact that something is free is irrelevant. There's no other way to look at this package than with much disgust. Same goes for people using it.

[ZachLW 37]

Illegal = against the law. Period. Copyright infringement = against the law = illegal. The fact that something is free is irrelevant. There's no other way to look at this package than with much disgust. Same goes for people using it.

That the creator credits the used AI packages and only takes credit for compiling this *great* and *free* AI package does nothing for you? When considering just how strong a word your using I think you're dead wrong. The problem today is legalities and copyright laws. Eleven year old Billy can't watch a youtube video to Britney Spears because that would be "copyright infringement". It's a SUBJECTIVE matter that should be discussed with a LEVEL HEAD. When it comes to stealing, I just won't do it. But when someone does the work of compiling thousands of flights for me--for free- of freeware AI traffic, and even gives the used AI creators credit, it's a no brainer.Edit: Keep in mind I'm not a developer so this is easily said :(

[Mike... 7]

The problem today is legalities and copyright laws.

The problem today is excuses. Excuses, excuses, excuses. I understand the natural drive to rationalize it all but at the end of the day the true creator of a flightplan, of a model, of a repaint, etc... has ownership. Not just in the legal sense, but also in the moral sense. Moral ownership of whatever he or she creates. The latter is part of the very basis of our Western civilization. Does that do nothing for you? (Not a communist, are you?! :()The fact that Alpha India Group or World of AI ask that their work not be distributed without their permission. Apart from the legal aspects is there no moral obligation to respect their wishes? That it's free doesn't change anything. That credit is given doesn't change anything. They asked that their work not be uploaded elsewhere. I don't know about you, but I respect their wishes and the hundreds and thousands of hours they have altruistically spent on making and releasing their work. Which I then spend hundreds and thousands of hours on installing it. Then this SKAI guy comes along and then some other guy comes along and it takes mere minutes/hours to gets quasi instant gratification. Sure, credit is there, it's free, it's easy...O tempora, o mores! :(As for the law, change it, don't break it.

[ZachLW 37]

Mike, although I very much agree with you in respecting the author's wishes, it saves me hours in installation and tweaking. Perhaps I'm just a little to rebellious (have been for a while, my poor parents when I was in high school :( ) to come to terms with just why someone would have a problem with their work being used in this way. Either way I put it, it is wrong, unfortunately. Although I would never share someone else's work against their wishes, I will use this traffic program, at least for the time being because it's so accessible. I know where credit is do, and would damn near pay World-of-AI for their awesome work! EDIT: Heck, I would pay

[Swoop 0]

Illegal = against the law. Period. Copyright infringement = against the law = illegal. The fact that something is free is irrelevant. There's no other way to look at this package than with much disgust. Same goes for people using it.

Well everyone, glad to hear from you. I think discussions like this are healthy and can make it so everyone understands that there is more then one point of view in the world.With regards to copyright infringement, I believe that you cannot call an activity illegal until a case is litigated and proven to be an infringement. So anyone claiming that it is illegal, (that has not won at least a summary judgment), may not be quite correct.Do you think the technique of calling something illegal, (at least in this case), might be termed "Putting a Spin on Things" in order win sympathy by intimidation?Mark

[JSkorna 137]

Hi All,OK, maybe illegal is too strong of a word. Maybe "wrong" would be better. But on the other hand look at it this way. If you uploaded something to a particular site and it totally ended up somewhere where you didn't intend it to end up, without your permission, would you feel odd? I know some are going to say: " Heck I think it's great that someone took my stuff and uploaded it somewhere else." But many take pride in their work and they retain some sort of ownership, even if it is just freeware. Freeware gets updates, fixes, patches, the same as most payware, but we seem to just expect that once it's uploaded somewhere its free game for anyone to come along and do whatever they want with it.Why can't there be one huge download somewhere? WOAI have answered this before. The file would be huge. It would not be easily updated. Users would lose their choice in what to install and what not to install.I am glad that some have chosen not to install, but to support the individuals that supplied the original packages.

[ZachLW 37]

I just believe that developers should welcome sharing and modifications. 3rd party developers are great, so good! But 4th and 5th party?! They can take our Precious addons to great levels. Visit the Subsim communities sometime, They share work and aren't in it for the the all important dollar or credit. Everyone want's theirs, be it money or other credit, I just love examples of other "hobbyist" taking a freeware, and modifying it to another level. ie. skAI That's my soap box for the evening! Interesting topic guys! :(