SKAI Traffic - Is It Kosher?

[Guest lgvpilot1]

Hi,From one of the WOAI Readmes:"IMPORTANT NOTICE:THESE FILES MAY ONLY BE UPLOADED TO AVSIM or FLIGHTSIM.COM BY THE AUTHOR ONLY. THESE FILES MAY NOT BE UPLOADED TO ANY OTHER SITE WITHOUT THE AUTHOR'S WRITTENPERMISSION."

Yes Jim I have read that several times in this thread alone :( I wanted to know THEIR thinking behind the statement .Mark

[JSkorna 137]

Hi,This was discussed here after the package was released. I don't know if it is archived or not. You need to realize this was quite a long time ago when the SK package first was released and they had their say then. I will not try to recreate what they said so long ago. They wrote the statement back then and still include it with every download now.If people think it is important to follow the original author's wishes, great. If not, then so be it. No money is being lost, nobody is being hurt, no one is going to get sued, and people can have all their AI traffic in one download.

[MIKE JG 0]

We include this with EVERY single package we release and it's on our site as well. Military AI Works Copyright PolicyEvery element contained within a MAIW package is included with the express permission of the author. This permission can be rescinded at any time by an author, at which time their copyrighted materials will not be used for future packages. A package, and all of its contents, that has been released into the public domain, is the copyright of Military AI Works. Military AI Works packages may not be re-released by any third party without the express permission of Military AI Works..Militray AI Works will never sell any package containing copyrighted materials without the express written permission of each individual author. Any breach of this contract voids Military AI Works copyright to said package. Just because something is free, doesn't mean that a user is free to do with it as they please. It's a deal between the users and the creators. The creators agree to share their work as long as the users agree to abide by the creator's policy. Plain and simple.If you can't abide by our policy, don't use our packages. That's all we ask.

[Guest lgvpilot1]

Hi,This was discussed here after the package was released. I don't know if it is archived or not. You need to realize this was quite a long time ago when the SK package first was released and they had their say then. I will not try to recreate what they said so long ago. They wrote the statement back then and still include it with every download now.If people think it is important to follow the original author's wishes, great. If not, then so be it. No money is being lost, nobody is being hurt, no one is going to get sued, and people can have all their AI traffic in one download.

Thanks JimI will try my luck with the search engine .I think there is ,and will always be two schools of thought about things like these "repackaged" Ai downloads.I know a lot of people use SKai for ease of insatallation , possibly not aware that they can install multiple woai flights in one go as well.I am one of those people who will always try to see both sides of any arguement/discussion and i agree with your underlining the WOAI readme's And i read that as "We have put in a lot of work , you can have it for free if you would just agree to ........"I dont think this is a lot to ask of anyone But I can understand if someone wants to add "a lot" of AI in one or two clicks of the mouse I see that as one twenty minute download , then click I agree , I agree , install , job done !!!!Some people have said it comes down to morals , what is the right thing to do , but i believe it comes down to the fact that we want everything as quickly and as easily as possible , with the least amount of hassle , sign of the times maybe , I mean we dont even have to go shopping now if we dont want to , just log on click , click , deliver , never leave the comfy chair :( Maybe that is stretching the point , but I understand why people use it Mark

[JSkorna 137]

Thanks Mark!

[Guest FredGherkin]

Kindly, this is a public discussion. And the personal attack obviously shows your maturity. I pay for my add ons just like you. I am entitled an opinion, just like you. I kindly ask you refrain from the accusations. That's borderline slander.

Well said.

[Chock 17,769]

Or perhaps more accurately, you might say well written.Sorry to sound picky, but if something was written down, it's libel, not slander. Slander is the defamatory spoken word.It's only libel if it has no foundation, if you are on record as saying you'd do something, and someone else reiterates that, it is not borderline or otherwise. Similarly of course, if a statement has no foundation in truth, it is indeed libel.Like pregnancy, you either are, or are not, and cannot be a little bit pregnant.Al

[ZachLW 37]

Ha. Thanks Alan. You always have something interesting to bring to the table.

[Guest FredGherkin]

Or perhaps more accurately, you might say well written.

Apparently, I'm not as pedantic as you are. And that's all I have to say.

[Guest drawlins]

Well, I'm one of the developers who's work was used without permission in the SKai package, and I'm not happy about it. I've contacted, and I know WoAI has tried contacting SKai as well, asking that our files be removed and not surprisingly, we were ignored. So short of spending lots of $ on lawyers trying to chase down some yoyo who has zero respect for the wishes of the authors of the files he's packed up, what are we to do? We sure can't rely on the flight sim community to condemn the SKai package because most of them love it. They wouldn't care if the Super Duper AI Package to End All "All-in-One" Packages was put together by Osama Bin Laden, as long as it was free, and had stuff they wanted. (Obviously this is a bit of hyperbole on my part, but I use it to make a point that a lot of FS Users don't care one bit about the origins of the stuff they use, as long as it's Free, Easy, and Now.) This package came up last year in the WoAI forum, and at the time the Website (Wingz of Silence) hosting the SKAI package also had a forum full of links to cracked Payware FS add-ons. And a quite amusing plea for donations from his 'users' to help keep his site up. For a measly $10 (voluntary) donation you got to download hundreds of dollars of payware products for free, so that's money well spent if you want to support your local FS pirate.Why do developers like me care if someone takes our work and repacks it? It really doesn't matter what the reasons are, maybe we're just all cranky ######s, but if we don't want our files packed up in someone elses package, that should be pretty much be in the end of the discussion. You don't like our "restrictions"? Fine, no problem, don't use our files. But back to why developers care about where their files end up. There's a lot of plausible reasons, the developer wants to keep up with how many people are using his stuff, if he needs to patch a file, he knows where the files are, he doesn't want to see his files end up on a CD/DVD being sold on eBay. Maybe he just wants to feel that the FS Community respects him as a developer. And then there's the financial incentive. Maybe one day someone like me will sell his soul to a payware developer and he has to know where his files are out on the web so he can remove them so more people will now spend money on his work. I know this reason is simply repulsive to a lot of the Free-Easy-Now crowd, but there you go, remember, we all have bills to pay.I suppose this is really ultimately the fault of the selfish freeware developers for creating quality models and repaints that people want to use in the first place. If we didn't want people to steal our stuff we'd upload bad looking models and dodgy repaints that no one would want to see in their sim.In the interests of full disclosure, I actually did sell-out to a payware developer, a lot of my models and repaints are now included with Ultimate Traffic 2. Yes, you can now spend good money for models and repaints that you could previously only get for free. Did I pull my models from avsim, woai, etc, to try and force the "Community" to spend money on UT2? Nope. Never even crossed mind, in fact a lot of the models and repaints I've uploaded in the past year were actually being made specifically for inclusion in UT2. In the end though, it's all about respect. Do you respect the developers who provide free stuff for you at their own personal time and expense? (And don't fool yourself into thinking that a decent AI model is created in only a day or 2) Do you respect them enough to honor their pretty simple wishes that they only want their files on certain websites, or not used in packages without their permission? Or is all that you really care about is getting it Free, Easy & Now? Given the choice between downloading and installing a package like SKAI, Adobe, or Tantris, (all of whom have been asked to remove my models and repaints from their packages, none have done it) or respecting my wishes, what are you going to choose? From my perspective, I'd guess about 70% of the community goes for for the Skai, Adobe, etc package.Free, Easy and Now may be great for you in the short run, but I have to be honest, reading some of the comments in this thread do make me question why I do this. I know other developers feel the same way. They may go payware, or they may just decide they've had enough with the FS Community and they're going to spend their free time on the sofa watching TV, or even with their families (imagine that). So, why do I do this? It's certainly not because of the deluge of "Thank You's" I get from the FS Community (I think I got 3 last year that didn't ask for something, model, repaint, etc) Personally, my reasons for doing this for the last 7 years is that I get to work with some of the most talented modelers and painters around, and it's truly been a pleasure and a privelage to work with them.David R(ai aardvark)

[MIKE JG 0]

Well said David, well said. Some people will never "get it". Of that I am truly convinced.

[ZachLW 37]

Ignore. I'm DONE with this post! :(

[Guest lgvpilot1]

Ignore. I'm DONE with this post! :(

Its normally the mods who say that as they either press "Lock" or "delete" :( As I have said before at least it is being discussed in a mostly reasonable manner this time , In fact I have a feeling that three pages for an SKai post has to be some kind of record from what I have seen using the seach engine Mark

[ZachLW 37]

It has been a reasonable post indeed. I did find my self on the wrong side of accusations once already. The developers seem to have tempers :( . But guys, just to set the tone for myself for any reading devs. I love the work! Mike, I downloaded some North Carolina ANG from MAIW's *AWESOME* site a long time ago, and it has been reinstalled with every installation of FS. When I poke through the included readme files, I wish I had the talent to produce such work. Thanks. :(