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markturner

Fiber Frame Time Fraction value and its effect

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Hi, please can anyone with an indepth knowledge of this comment. Having spent several weeks tweaking TileProxy to get the best combination of speed and resolution, the final piece of the jigsaw clicked last night.I found that this value was instrumental in allowing the high resolution textures to be loaded in quickly, once you had optimised the other settings.I must admit I had not been using it, discounting it because the accepted knowledge, coming from the man himself Phil Taylor, is that this tweak does nothing post SP2. However, Christian Buchner, the tileproxy author and himself no slouch when it comes to coding obviously, includes it in his .cfg file changes for the latest version of Tile proxy. I have asked on the tile proxy forum for him to comment on this, but so far, no responce. But that tells me, that the setting has value, or why include it? Again, here we are dealing with a very different type of textures and scenery that found in standard FSX, so perhaps that explains why it it is good for one and not the other.I would be interested to find out why it works using photoscenery though.I would also like to know about the range of values and their form. Christian recommends settings from 0.33 to 1.33, with 1.33 giving better texture loading performance on my machine.I want to know why are the values expressed to 2 decimal places and both ending in .33. Can you set round number values, such as 1.0 ? And what are the upper and lower values coded into the sim, for example, could you use higher values if your machine and set up allowed it? I tried using value 1.5 last night and it was better than 1.33. I think this may be a similar scenario to finding out that TBM settings of up to 400 could be used while using only photoscenery and no autogen, to improve the performance of texture loading recently.I would appreciate anyones comments and some definitive knowledge on this. Cheers, Mark

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Hi Mark, I too had read Phil Taylors comment about the Fiber rate figure but like you found higher settings worked better with Tileproxy (e.g. 1.33, 1.50 and 1.66). I also found that lower settings (0.33 & 0.50) worked better at higher airspeeds.Regarding the TBM setting, I used 400 for ages but reducing it gave smoother performance at the expense of slightly slower texture loading. I've tried a number of settings and settled on 120, which I have found to be the best with my system. I guess you need to try a few and stick with it for a while to see whether you really experience any difference.The problem is that everyones system is different and what works for one won't work for another.IAN


Ryzen 5800X3D, Nvidia 3080 - 32 Gig DDR4 RAM, 1TB & 2 TB NVME drives - Windows 11 64 bit MSFS 2020 Premium Deluxe Edition Resolution 2560 x 1440 (32 inch curved monitor)

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You all should go to the Hardware Forum, and search for Fiber Frame, for Fiber_Frame because they discuss this ad infinitum there. Long story short...if memory serves, per MS, FIBER_FRAME is nonfunctional on multi-core machines, but has noticeable impact on single core machines. If you are seeing something with FIBER_FRAME on a multi-core machine, take it up with Microsoft or some of the hardware guys, and not me, ok? :)


Rhett

7800X3D ♣ 32 GB G.Skill TridentZ  Gigabyte 4090  Crucial P5 Plus 2TB 

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How did you determine that this tweak works?scott s..
It's difficult to be specific, like measuring framerates. Stutters and clarity of textures is very much a case of using it for a while and getting a feel. Thats why I don't simply try 2 or 3 setings one after the other. Some seem to work better in different circumstances. For example, I've got FSX running like a dream, then I come to a really busy airport or decide to fly with a lot of clouds and realise that I have to turn a few things down. SInce i don't oftenfly at really busy airpors, I just accept that performance isn't too great when I do.IAN

Ryzen 5800X3D, Nvidia 3080 - 32 Gig DDR4 RAM, 1TB & 2 TB NVME drives - Windows 11 64 bit MSFS 2020 Premium Deluxe Edition Resolution 2560 x 1440 (32 inch curved monitor)

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I determined it worked by saving a flight at a certain point, adjusting the value I was testing and repeatedly flying the same saved flight and studying how crisp the textures were and how quickly they loaded. Thus I was able to notice the quicker loading and better visuals and deduce that the last change made had the observed effect. And Mace, the problem with your suggestion is that everyone there will tell you it does not have any effect on multicore machines, much as you have. I myself was well aware of that comment by Phil, having read his blog. However, in this case we are talking about the use of the tweak for Tile Proxy, not vanilla FSX, in addition, the coder of TileProxy actually included it in the .cfg file alterations that his programme uses to optimise performance of Tile Proxy in FSX. That would lead me to conclude that while the tweak has no value on multicore machines using normal autogen textures etc in FSX, when you use tile proxy and its different scenery type, that is not the case.The reason I started the thread is because of this, I want someone knows about this in relation to use with Tile Proxy to comment. Thanks for the input from everyone so far, cheers, Mark

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Guest UlfB
And Mace, the problem with your suggestion is that everyone there will tell you it does not have any effect on multicore machines, much as you have. I myself was well aware of that comment by Phil, having read his blog. However, in this case we are talking about the use of the tweak for Tile Proxy, not vanilla FSX, in addition, the coder of TileProxy actually included it in the .cfg file alterations that his programme uses to optimise performance of Tile Proxy in FSX. That would lead me to conclude that while the tweak has no value on multicore machines using normal autogen textures etc in FSX, when you use tile proxy and its different scenery type, that is not the case.
Mark,You should trust Rhett on this topic. If you run FSX SP2 the fiber frame setting won't have any effect at all on your quad cpu. Any changes is pure imagination. This has nothing to do with any add on.Rhett is right. I hope that you'll trust the information and stop spreading false tweaks. Thank you.

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Guest UlfB
However, in this case we are talking about the use of the tweak for Tile Proxy, not vanilla FSX, in addition, the coder of TileProxy actually included it in the .cfg file alterations that his programme uses to optimise performance of Tile Proxy in FSX. That would lead me to conclude that while the tweak has no value on multicore machines using normal autogen textures etc in FSX, when you use tile proxy and its different scenery type, that is not the case.
Mark,Here is link to Phil Taylors old FSX blog: http://blogs.msdn.com/ptaylor/archive/2007...f-the-week.aspxThe topic is FSX SP1 tweaks and you may discover that Phil talks about TileProxy. FSX SP2 changed the behaviour of the graphics engine on multicore computers.EDITED: Here is a thread by Nick Needham OT: http://www.simforums.com/forums/forum_post...D=170479#170479I could also recommend you to study Nicks advice on how to tune your system and FSX: http://www.simforums.com/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=29041DON'T USE the FIBER_FRAME_TIME_FRACTION in your fsx.cfg if you have a multicore computer!

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Thanks Ulf for your well meaning advice. That was exactly the kind of response I was referring to in my reply to Mace. If you follow any of my previous threads Ulf, you will notice that I am well aware of all of the information you pointed me in the direction of. If you look at my original post, you will see that indeed, I had not used it at all because of that. But I ran out of things to try and other people in the tile proxy forum had seen benefit from using it, so I tried.And I am not " spreading false tweaks". This is not the middle ages, where daring to question some accepted wisdom is heresy !!! I noticed something that according to you and many other people should not be happening. That is why I questioned it. I was told exactly the same thing about altering the TBM value and yet after plugging away at it and several people verifying what I noticed, Nick Needham accepted that what I noticed had value in the particular circumstance I was referring to and included this in his tuning thread. ( TBM value when using photoscenery)Perhaps you would like to ask Christian Buchner why he is "spreading false tweaks " with his heretical TileProxy software. Because that is where the question arises.And it does not alter the fact that adjusting or using this value has a real effect on the time taken to load textures when using TileProxy. Sorry.Regards, Mark

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Guest UlfB
Perhaps you would like to ask Christian Buchner why he is "spreading false tweaks " with his heretical TileProxy software. Because that is where the question arises.
Mark,Please, please, please. I've never said that Christian Buchner is spreading false tweaks. Read the following paragraph twice.The TileProxy recommendation was made way back during 2007 before FSX SP2 was released. So the tweak is valid if you run FSX SP1 or if you don't have a multicore processer. But the tweak is not valid in two cases:1. You run FSX RTM2. You run FSX SP2 and use a multicore pc.You wrote (my bold face in the quote)
...I tried using value 1.5 last night and it was better than 1.33. ...I would appreciate anyones comments and some definitive knowledge on this. Cheers, Mark
My comment is that if you change this value and if you run FSX SP2 on your multicore pc, there will be no difference between different settings.Some more linkshttp://cheyennepilot.wordpress.com/configu...-setup/fsx-cfg/http://www.simforums.com/forums/forum_post...D=170479#170479On the net you'll find a lot of articles on how to tweak FSX and how to use the fiber frame time fraction, but many of them are dated back to the FSX SP1 release. This is not a question about who is telling the truth and who is lying.EDITED: I accused you for spreading false tweaks, which was wrong. I'm sorry and I hope that you accept my apology. :(But I still say that there will be no difference between different settings on your computer if you run FSX SP2.

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Ok Ulf, apology accepted. I am only saying what I saw. I sat in front of my PC ( bear in mind I have been obsessively tweaking and reading up on how Tile proxy works for about 3 weeks, to try and get it working as good as i can ) and after getting it almost there, I was still having problems keeping the highest res textures loaded permanently under the plane. I ran the same flight carefully changing only one value at a time and checking twice to verify what I saw. I saw (and still do now every time I fly), the highest resolution textures staying loaded under my plane, or snapping in to focus very quickly after i changed the value as described. This has never happened before, until I started using this tweak and increasing its value. If you are saying I did not see this or could not see this , all i can say is I have no reason to lie.Beta 8 of Tile proxy was released in October 2008, just under a year ago, well after the release of SP2. Christain has updated the manual for the latest release. The FFTf tweak is still in there. I guess we would need to ask him personally if this is a mistake and wether indeed it has no merit, or wether, being the genius coder that he is, he has figured something out that mere mortals like us cant understand.If you are saying that the improvement I saw must be due to something else, then that is different entirely. Although what that might be seeing as I was only adjusting that value, I dont know. Any way, the point of the thread was not to spread the word about some miracle tweak, I was asking for information about the value, its ranges, and how it works, so that I could understand better what I was seeing.Bottom line is my tile proxy experience is now pretty much perfect and if anyone reading this wants to see a copy of my fsx .cfg file and tile proxy .ini file, so they can try it themselves, they are welcome. Meantime, I would still welcome any more technical background or expert opinion to answer my original questions regarding the value range etc.Cheers, Mark

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Guest UlfB
Beta 8 of Tile proxy was released in October 2008, just under a year ago, well after the release of SP2. Christain has updated the manual for the latest release. The FFTf tweak is still in there. I guess we would need to ask him personally if this is a mistake and wether indeed it has no merit, or wether, being the genius coder that he is, he has figured something out that mere mortals like us cant understand.
Mark,Please, please please! Read this post several times!!!!!It's not a mistake by Christian!The tweak should be there!And it works!But it only works for those that run FSX SP1 or for those running SP2 with a single core computer.That's why the tweak is recommended. There is no harm to add the tweak to your fsx.cfg if you run SP2 with a multicore computer, but it won't have any impact on FSX behaviour. If you notice a performance increase in texture loading, your are either running FSX SP1 or SP2 with a single core system.

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Mark,Please, please please! Read this post several times!!!!!It's not a mistake by Christian!The tweak should be there!And it works!But it only works for those that run FSX SP1 or for those running SP2 with a single core computer.That's why the tweak is recommended. There is no harm to add the tweak to your fsx.cfg if you run SP2 with a multicore computer, but it won't have any impact on FSX behaviour. If you notice a performance increase in texture loading, your are either running FSX SP1 or SP2 with a single core system.
Sorry to barge in, and please don't misunderstand my post, but your wrong.With Tileproxy and Photoreal scenery, the fiber frame fraction can make or break how your scenery loads in FSX weather it be RTM, SP1 or SP2 (I'm running on SP2). Like mark said, Tileproxy 0.8 Beta was developed a while after SP2, and the developer of Tileproxy was well aware, thats why he has a compatibility chart in the manual and his program DETECTS whether your running FSX RTM, SP1 or SP2. When I had default value of 0.33 the scenery rarely updated even though Tileproxy had finished converting the textures. You can even try with the default scenery. If your fiber frame fraction is very low, depending on your affinity mask the scenery close to you will either update slowly and then update the mip to the highest resolution when your very close, or it will load very far away with a high fiber frame fraction value (E.g. 0.66+)Try it on your PC and see, he is not lying. Also Tileproxy uses a driver and can detect the settings of FSX and bandwidth of the connection to FSX (which is how it detects if you changed your LOD_RADIUS and download more tiles, since FSX does not write value changes to the CFG untill FSX closes safely.) Mark is not lying at all and he is infact correct.... If you had Tileproxy maybe you would understand. ...and were all running quads...I recommend that people run Tileproxy before you start making statements like that because Tileproxy and the default synthetic, landclass scenery that FSX and other landclass addons use are very different in the way they work. :(
You all should go to the Hardware Forum, and search for Fiber Frame, for Fiber_Frame because they discuss this ad infinitum there. Long story short...if memory serves, per MS, FIBER_FRAME is nonfunctional on multi-core machines, but has noticeable impact on single core machines. If you are seeing something with FIBER_FRAME on a multi-core machine, take it up with Microsoft or some of the hardware guys, and not me, ok? :)
FALSE... Phil Taylor, Nick and other major developrs are reffering to the fiber frame tweak with the default scenery and other landclass based scenery (exp. Orbx FTX, GEX, UTX, etc). It will not have much effect with those kinds of scenery, and the fiber frame is functional no matter how many cores you have... Many FSX users (including developrs) have not used Tileproxy or any Photoscenery therefore they think that it doesn't have much effect, but with certain types of scenery it can have a minor or major effect. The usually run a VANILLA FSX, due to the fact that they develop products and they want to make sure it will work on the customers PCs.

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Guest UlfB

I give up!I guess that if you really believe that the fft setting work it's good for you.

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