2D Panels or no 2D Panels?

[guenseli 1,589]

Hello,because of several disussions in the PMDG forum (because of the new J41) and in others we can read, I have a question if we (the customers) want 2D panels or not?I don't talk about exclusive 2D addons without any VC. I talk about additional 2D panels, additional to the VC! Would be very interested in your opinion and maybe this helps developers for future addons...guenter

[1mikel151 71]

Voted, never use them. While I don't have a problem with including both options, knowing how long development time can be for quality FS models, I would rather they not spend the time working on them in order to get the model out sonner. Same principle for doing an additional FS9 version of an addon also.

[Guest GMM]

I think it is important to have the basic 2-D panel, as it is not eay to move around in VC, as poor panning abilities, plus the quality of textures in VC are often not good enough to identify specific writing. Also, lots of begininners need the 2D panel

[some1 65]

Since I have bought trackir five years ago I don't use 2D panels any more, but little popup panels that are used to control most frequently used functions like FMC or autopilot are still very useful even in J41. They can even be very simplified, like small panels in A2A aircraft.

[JBnTx 0]

2D panels are a thing of the past. Virtual Cockpits have progressed to a point where the 2D panelis just redundant. (At least in the higher quality payware aircraft.)The viewpoint in the VC can be adjusted to give a more realisticview of both outside and inside the aircraft.

[Bert Pieke 7,585]

2D panels are a thing of the past. Virtual Cockpits have progressed to a point where the 2D panelis just redundant. (At least in the higher quality payware aircraft.)The viewpoint in the VC can be adjusted to give a more realisticview of both outside and inside the aircraft.

Well said.... Ditto for me.ps. 2d popups are OK though, and can be handy for specific purposes, like a FMC or GPS unit..

[guenseli 1,589]

thanks for the first round of replies and votes.... hope to get much more!Don't forget that I don't ask for the complete 2D panels of FS2004 times where you have to hole PIC panel in sight.I just ask about the small ones... if it will be lights, FMC, Radios or whatever.I think thats a big difference.

[Warren 0]

thanks for the first round of replies and votes.... hope to get much more!Don't forget that I don't ask for the complete 2D panels of FS2004 times where you have to hole PIC panel in sight.I just ask about the small ones... if it will be lights, FMC, Radios or whatever.I think thats a big difference.

I fly exclusively with the 2d panel as I like an unobstructed view of the scenery, but then again I am not into a lot of the realisim that most are. However I do like flying the reaair scout in vc once in awhile. So I would have to say I would be more willing to buy payware if it had both options.

[jrhoads 6]

Hello,because of several disussions in the PMDG forum (because of the new J41) and in others we can read, I have a question if we (the customers) want 2D panels or not?I don't talk about exclusive 2D addons without any VC. I talk about additional 2D panels, additional to the VC! Would be very interested in your opinion and maybe this helps developers for future addons...guenter

Having a single poll at Avsim does and will not represent what some of us developers know that is specific to our own business model and what our customers want as a substantial percentage.I love 2D panels, I despise VC's ...surprising since we do build very nice VC's? It should not be. We do it because this is what the customer wants. It does not matter what I want or prefer. It is the larger percent of what customers want that matters. Having both a VC and 2D is a massive amount of extra work for a small populace that wants the 2D (me included) That effort has to be paid for somewhere and providing both environments for what entertainment users are willing to pay does not pan out well "if" the developer is providing both outstanding 2D and VC.I tried to tell you this in our own forum and said I would not argue about it. Yet here I am arguing about it! :( Nevertheless, avsim poll or any other poll, it does not prove what each developer knows of his customer base and what there own business model is and the return for investment of doing both.By the way... I really am done discussing this on my end anyway. Regards,Jim

[JBnTx 0]

.....I love 2D panels, I despise VC's ......Jim

Your position really perplexes me? I'm the exact opposite.I guess if you fly only IFR in big airliners, you could get by with only the forward looking2D panel and the smaller pop up panels.I fly a lot of VFR in small GA and I find the VC absolutely necessary. I like usingthe pan/hat switch to look around as I turn to line up with the runway forlanding. That seems far more realistic than just always looking straight ahead.I'm addicted to looking out of the aircraft at the scenery going by. All of my aircraft areones you can see out of easily in the VC, like the CS C-130.A VC is so much more realistic. In fact, I won't buy an aircraft without a good quality VC.But, I guess to each his own.

[jrhoads 6]

Your position really perplexes me? I'm the exact opposite.I guess if you fly only IFR in big airliners, you could get by with only the forward looking2D panel and the smaller pop up panels.I fly a lot of VFR in small GA and I find the VC absolutely necessary. I like usingthe pan/hat switch to look around as I turn to line up with the runway forlanding. That seems far more realistic than just always looking straight ahead.I'm addicted to looking out of the aircraft at the scenery going by. All of my aircraft areones you can see out of easily in the VC, like the CS C-130.A VC is so much more realistic. In fact, I won't buy an aircraft without a good quality VC.But, I guess to each his own.

Go back and read what I said slowly... "It does not matter what I think"I am a commercial pilot, aircraft owner and I have and do fly some fairly impressive aircraft. No VC I have ever seen including what we do looks realistic to me unless I strap a fishbowl on my head. :( I refer to this as "perceived reality" throw the fiery darts as you may, I know what I see when I fly both real world and simulated. But this is my opinion.It does not matter what I think. What matters is what you want as a customer and most customers want a great VC. And I will always intend on delivering this for entertainment customers. What you will find as a rule is that most of all training applications do not want anything to do with VC's. That is fact. So do not be so perplexed! Be happy you have a nice VC despite what I think!Jim RhoadsFlight1

[Guest FelixFFDS]

What you will find as a rule is that most of all training applications do not want anything to do with VC's. That is fact. So do not be so perplexed! Be happy you have a nice VC despite what I think!Jim RhoadsFlight1

So, the end result, Jim, is that you're not paid to think - you're paid to put out what the customer will pay for!! :)(You do realize that you have forevermore established the image of a VC being a "virtual fishbowl" in my head?)

[jrhoads 6]

:(

[Highmike 68]

ps. 2d popups are OK though, and can be handy for specific purposes, like a FMC or GPS unit..

I'm with Bert - I don't want to lose my 2D popups. If you have to rely on the VC (or VC views) for dialing up altitude or air speed then sooner or later you are going to suffer frustration - especially with your view jiggling around because of the latency. Also adding VC views for those sorts of controls will rob frame rates from more important tasks - 2D popups are frame rate friendly.I'd much rather have a 2D popup for those controls which would be lost if there was no longer any 2D panel.

[guenseli 1,589]

Hey Jim,as I told you: don't take it personally or take it as a offense to your Mustang.This is just a poll for my personal interest (which is a result of our "discussion", yes)You have stated that you love 2Ds and we all know that your Mustang have 2D - so no need to take it personally.If the result at the end is that the most people like VC more than 2D then I have to think about that I'm in a minority :( If the result of the poll is that many or the most user like both, everything is fine too and maybe the one or other developer is happy that he can serve his customers in the best way - or knows that he is doing it already (like you).