Noel
Mar 4 2009, 01:43 AM
At least new to me! First, super thanks to Omzig, whoever he/she is. I posted a question "Is there a driver-level frame lock utility for nV GPUs?" in the Video Cards & Drivers section on Feb 15th, and until today, no replies.
Here is the issue I posed:
"I am looking for a driver-level method to lock frames in FSX. As we know, sometimes running UNLIMITED can lead to frame rate surges and jerky video at times. There are also priorization benefits in running UNLIMITED that limiting frames in FSX seems to override, or at least adversely affect. It seems to me a driver level frame rate limiter would solve this conundrum. Any thoughts?"
Omzig sent me a link to the freeware applet that does just this. Seems super low overhead. And I have very good news! It works perfectly to REMOVE the surges that can come when using UNLIMITED. This is really a nice benefit I have already discovered. One can set the desired FPS limit in the applet by way of a batch file that autoexecutes FSX.exe (or any other D3D 9.x or 8 or Open GL app). This approach eliminates FPS "spikes" as Nick and other have noted is unfavorably associated with UNLIMITED frames in FSX under certain conditions. There may be optimal places to set the frame lock on this. But already, I'm seeing it works as theorized. There are quite a few posts in other game forums re the value of this tool in minimizing . . . "micro-stutters." I'm not sure this is true, but it certainly solves frame surges, which can ruin the optimization and higher baseline framerate that UNLIMITED offers.
Here is a picture of the Java run applet interface:
Click to view attachmentA screenshot of FSX using FRAPS to display actual FPS, with FSX's frame limiter set at UNLIMITED (note: without FPS_Limiter, this scene runs at ~40fps UNLIMITED:
Click to view attachmentHere is the link to get the applet:
http://rapidshare.com/files/16064218...imiter_0.2.rarYou will need to rename .rar to .zip to open it, or download shareware winrar.
You will also need the Java applet enabled on your machine/browser.
From there, expand the .rar file into a folder, and click on the .jar file. This generates the GUI interface you see above. From there, just navigate to FSX.exe and the GUI will create a batch file to run FPS_Limiter and autoexecute FSX.exe. From there, you're good to go!
I think this will turn out to be a significant technique to use. Enjoy!
Noel
ryanbatcund
Mar 4 2009, 01:44 AM
Hmmm, did you intend to run 1/4 speed in game?
Noel
Mar 4 2009, 01:50 AM
QUOTE (ryanbatcund @ Mar 4 2009, 06:44 AM)

Hmmm, did you intend to run 1/4 speed in game?
It's irrelevant fortunately. It was done because FSX's frame counter bounced around between 29.5 and 30.7 or so. You will find this works exactly as advertised. In areas where you would normally see 60 or 70 frames in UNLIMITED, you will now see 30, give or take a fraction. I tried to capture one spot on 30, but missed. FRAPS updates slower, and so sits on 30 more consistently. Save yourself the skeptic mode--go check it out, you'll be glad you did I'm sure
Debocraft
Mar 4 2009, 02:44 AM
what would be the difference of using this application to limit the spikes when fsx is set to unlimited or to simply limit the fsx frames manually to a suitable level?
kwilson
Mar 4 2009, 03:03 AM
The link doesn't seem to be working.
michal
Mar 4 2009, 03:30 AM
QUOTE (Debocraft @ Mar 3 2009, 11:44 PM)

what would be the difference of using this application to limit the spikes when fsx is set to unlimited or to simply limit the fsx frames manually to a suitable level?
Good question. Why bother with some applet if frame limiter is already built into FS?
J van E
Mar 4 2009, 07:07 AM
QUOTE (michal @ Mar 4 2009, 09:30 AM)

Good question. Why bother with some applet if frame limiter is already built into FS?
And I also thought the same. I guess the answer is what he said here:
"There are also priorization benefits in running UNLIMITED that limiting frames in FSX seems to override, or at least adversely affect. It seems to me a driver level frame rate limiter would solve this conundrum."
But I wonder: what exactly are those priorization benefits?
enyap
Mar 4 2009, 08:05 AM
I haven't tried this and am sceptical but I'm a sucker for anything that promises an improvement. The link seems to be broken but the file is fps_limiter_0.2.rar. Easily googlable.
John
Omzig
Mar 4 2009, 08:34 AM
Glad to hear it worked for you :)
Heres a
LINK to the file mirror at my own RS account
Im Omzig here but else where in the FS community im know as Gizmo,you may have seen or even used a few of my repaints (infact i have one in the Avsim AVSIM Reader's Choice Awards Best freeware other VH-AIF HD repaint for the carenado C152)
I havent tryed this tweak myself in FSX (although i've used it with other games)as im a DX10 flyer (made my own custom water normals for DX10) but i'll be giving it a look in DX9 now that Noel has posted a glowing review
Cheers
Gizmo
Noel
Mar 4 2009, 10:28 AM
QUOTE (michal @ Mar 4 2009, 08:30 AM)

Good question. Why bother with some applet if frame limiter is already built into FS?
I guess you missed the point. Without a doubt in MY experience: when I set to UNLIMITED, I get considerably higher frame averages in areas where situation complexity will cause the sim to run at maybe 25% slower than in the same situation UNLIMITED. For example, in a complex terminal in a 3rd party plane, I might set frames at 30 (in FSX) and it will settle into around 24 or so. Go to UNLIMITED, and the same situation gets around 30, only this can lead itself to the surges and spikes mentioned. I will usually put up with spikes to get the superior overall rate, unless it's severe, as in certain situations when the sim might go quickly in and out of high complexity-low complexity situations, such as with certain cloud types. Not so any longer! Read NickN's comments re UNLIMITED. You will find he has had the same experience.
QUOTE (michal @ Mar 4 2009, 08:30 AM)

Good question. Why bother with some applet if frame limiter is already built into FS?
I don't know exactly--but it's true. Try a complex scene that when set to 30 (in FSX) you find the sim running at 23 or 24. Go to UNLIMITED, and the same exact scene runs at around 30. NickN as referenced these, which is why he flies UNLIMITED in dense areas with 3rd party birds, I believe.
rhodges
Mar 4 2009, 11:27 AM
Ummmmm. Well Obviously I am doing something wrong, or missing a step or action somewhere:
I have installed the program and get the following results:
1. I double click on :FPS_Limiter_GUI.jar"
2. I then entered my path to "FSX.exe" and have exactly the same display as Noel's.
3. I enter my choice of Framerate (For academic purposes, less say "20"
4. I then click on "create bat".
5. I then double click on "fsx.exe.limited.bat".
6. The "FPS Limiter VO.2 © 2007 Marko Ludolph" window displays.
7. The FSX Startup begins.
8. The "FPS Limiter" window displays the following text:
"Using Direct3D 9 Renderer Hook"
Starting: C:\Program Files\Microsoft Games\Microsoft Flight Simulator\fsx.exe".
9. When my "Free Flight" option window comes up and the music plays, the "FPS Limiter...." Window displays big Green text: "New FPS: 20"
(After the default flight and continuing startup, some of the time a second large green "20" has displayed above the other green text)
10. FSX starts up normally, but there is no change in my unlimited frame rate display. It still will roam around between 30 and 40 (Unlimited setting).
I am assuming the large yellow "30" in Noel's display is thanks to "FRAPS"????? I do not get the "Unlimited" text in my red display at the top even though it is selected.
The readme file also states: " - New command line switch to set the desired fps (/f:x), default is 30
- New command line switch to enable or disable logging (/l:ON|OFF), default is OFF
- New ingame keys to change the desired fps (F10 decrease / F11 increase)
- New ingame fps display, show or hide with F12, command line switch is /x:ON|OFF, default is OFF"
I may be into something a little over my head here, but none of these key commands are changed for me either. F10-F12 still change displays from virtual, 2d, overhead etcl displays as well.
Am I supposed to put the ".dll" files in my module folder? What am I missing here? Anyone have any idea what I am doing wrong, or is anyone else having similar results? This sounds like a dandy contribution, but these old ears have another short between them.
Respectfully:
RTH
ASUS P5N-E-SLI Motherboard
Intel E6600 Core2 Duo CPU
Zalman CNPS7700-CU RT CPU Fam
4 GB KST DII800 Memory
WinXP Pro
NVIDIA VCG8800GTX 768MB Primary Video Graphics Card
21” Pro Series P815 Primary Monitor off of Primary 8800GTX (Monitor #1
21” Pro Series P815 Secondary Monitor off of Primary 8800GTX (Monitor #4)
ATI Radeon / Diamond X1550PRO256PSB PCI Version Secondary Video Card
19” Acer LCD Primary Monitor off of Secondary X1550 Video Card (Monitor #2)
Navadia version 162.18 drivers for 8800GTX Video Card
ATI Catalyst Version 7.5 Drivers for X1550PRO Video Card
2 each Segate 320GB SATA Harddrives in Raid0 array Configuration
2 each Segate 250GB UIDE Harddrives /W/SATA mini converters in Raid0 array Configuration (backup)Std. Floppy Drive
CDRW/DVDR
CDRW/DVDRW
PlusDeck 2C Audio Tape Player/Recorder
WINTV
Konica Minolta magicolor 2400W Laser Printer
TI Microlaser Plus Laser Printer
HP 4315v Printer/Fax/Scanner/Copier
Epson Perfection 2480 Photo Scanner
CH Pro USB Pedals
CH USB FlightSim Yoke
Microsoft FFB2 USB Joystick
Std. Keyboard
Logitech cordless mouse
High Speed Cable Internet/email Service with Router
Audigy 2 ZS Platinum Sound to Creative Inspire 5.1 5200 Speakers
Four each Case Fans
BFGR 1000 Watt Power Supply
SuperPower ATX Full Tower Case
jbinner
Mar 4 2009, 11:28 AM
does this "fix" work for DirectX 10?
Bert Pieke
Mar 4 2009, 05:55 PM
QUOTE (rhodges @ Mar 4 2009, 05:27 PM)

Ummmmm. Well Obviously I am doing something wrong, or missing a step or action somewhere:
I have installed the program and get the following results:
1. I double click on :FPS_Limiter_GUI.jar"
2. I then entered my path to "FSX.exe" and have exactly the same display as Noel's.
3. I enter my choice of Framerate (For academic purposes, less say "20"
4. I then click on "create bat".
5. I then double click on "fsx.exe.limited.bat".
6. The "FPS Limiter VO.2 © 2007 Marko Ludolph" window displays.
7. The FSX Startup begins.
8. The "FPS Limiter" window displays the following text:
"Using Direct3D 9 Renderer Hook"
Starting: C:\Program Files\Microsoft Games\Microsoft Flight Simulator\fsx.exe".
9. When my "Free Flight" option window comes up and the music plays, the "FPS Limiter...." Window displays big Green text: "New FPS: 20"
(After the default flight and continuing startup, some of the time a second large green "20" has displayed above the other green text)
10. FSX starts up normally, but there is no change in my unlimited frame rate display. It still will roam around between 30 and 40 (Unlimited setting).
I tried it and although it does not hard limit the framerates to 30 (it goes up to 40-45 in sparse scenery) it definitely removes the wild swings into 100+
territory. This may actually be a worthwhile function !
Try flying at San Clemente Island AFB to get out of detailed scenery and to really experience the difference.
kwilson
Mar 4 2009, 06:57 PM
Mr Hodges
I think you forgot to but your mother's maiden name in here. Please fix it post haste.
QUOTE (rhodges @ Mar 5 2009, 02:27 AM)

ASUS P5N-E-SLI Motherboard
Intel E6600 Core2 Duo CPU
Zalman CNPS7700-CU RT CPU Fam
4 GB KST DII800 Memory
WinXP Pro
NVIDIA VCG8800GTX 768MB Primary Video Graphics Card
21” Pro Series P815 Primary Monitor off of Primary 8800GTX (Monitor #1
21” Pro Series P815 Secondary Monitor off of Primary 8800GTX (Monitor #4)
ATI Radeon / Diamond X1550PRO256PSB PCI Version Secondary Video Card
19” Acer LCD Primary Monitor off of Secondary X1550 Video Card (Monitor #2)
Navadia version 162.18 drivers for 8800GTX Video Card
ATI Catalyst Version 7.5 Drivers for X1550PRO Video Card
2 each Segate 320GB SATA Harddrives in Raid0 array Configuration
2 each Segate 250GB UIDE Harddrives /W/SATA mini converters in Raid0 array Configuration (backup)Std. Floppy Drive
CDRW/DVDR
CDRW/DVDRW
PlusDeck 2C Audio Tape Player/Recorder
WINTV
Konica Minolta magicolor 2400W Laser Printer
TI Microlaser Plus Laser Printer
HP 4315v Printer/Fax/Scanner/Copier
Epson Perfection 2480 Photo Scanner
CH Pro USB Pedals
CH USB FlightSim Yoke
Microsoft FFB2 USB Joystick
Std. Keyboard
Logitech cordless mouse
High Speed Cable Internet/email Service with Router
Audigy 2 ZS Platinum Sound to Creative Inspire 5.1 5200 Speakers
Four each Case Fans
BFGR 1000 Watt Power Supply
SuperPower ATX Full Tower Case
flilotUK
Mar 4 2009, 07:45 PM
QUOTE (kwilson @ Mar 4 2009, 11:57 PM)

Mr Hodges
I think you forgot to but your mother's maiden name in here. Please fix it post haste.
Bert Pieke
Mar 4 2009, 08:10 PM
QUOTE (Bert Pieke @ Mar 4 2009, 11:55 PM)

I tried it and although it does not hard limit the framerates to 30 (it goes up to 40-45 in sparse scenery) it definitely removes the wild swings into 100+
territory. This may actually be a worthwhile function !
Try flying at San Clemente Island AFB to get out of detailed scenery and to really experience the difference.
No that I've flown with it on for a while, I must say that if there is a downside to this,
I have not discovered it yet...
If you have stutters and fps swings, try it... it is easy to do and does not make any permanent
changes to your FSX setup
rhodges
Mar 4 2009, 09:46 PM
Thanks Bert:
I guess I thought it did "hard limit the framerates" and am glad to learn that it wasn't something I did (or didn't do).
With my system such as it is with today's possibilities, I really don't see any "wild swings into 100+", and my display is reasonably smooth, but I will give this a try and see if I can tell any difference.
Again, thanks for the constructive comment.
Respectfully:
RTH
QUOTE (Bert Pieke @ Mar 4 2009, 11:55 PM)

I tried it and although it does not hard limit the framerates to 30 (it goes up to 40-45 in sparse scenery) it definitely removes the wild swings into 100+
territory. This may actually be a worthwhile function !
Try flying at San Clemente Island AFB to get out of detailed scenery and to really experience the difference.
Noel
Mar 4 2009, 10:35 PM
QUOTE (Bert Pieke @ Mar 4 2009, 11:55 PM)

I tried it and although it does not hard limit the framerates to 30 (it goes up to 40-45 in sparse scenery) it definitely removes the wild swings into 100+
territory. This may actually be a worthwhile function !
Try flying at San Clemente Island AFB to get out of detailed scenery and to really experience the difference.
Interesting Bert. It is definitely locking mine at 30. I wonder what the issues are there. It IS NOT DX10 compliant.
QUOTE (Bert Pieke @ Mar 5 2009, 02:10 AM)

No that I've flown with it on for a while, I must say that if there is a downside to this,
I have not discovered it yet...
If you have stutters and fps swings, try it... it is easy to do and does not make any permanent
changes to your FSX setup

I don't understand why it would have any easily predicted effect in terms of micro-stutters, though I can see some theoretical potential. But it clearly does resolve the surges/spikes I get in UNLIMITED mode as discussed. BTW, I have had these surges/spikes even back with FS9.
Noel
Mar 4 2009, 10:45 PM
QUOTE (rhodges @ Mar 4 2009, 05:27 PM)

10. FSX starts up normally, but there is no change in my unlimited frame rate display. It still will roam around between 30 and 40 (Unlimited setting).
>>>>>That is not happening to me, but it does sound like you are definitely getting this running.
I am assuming the large yellow "30" in Noel's display is thanks to "FRAPS"????? I do not get the "Unlimited" text in my red display at the top even though it is selected.
>>>>>Yes, I mentioned that I am using FRAPS. Why you are not seeing UNLIMITED in your FSX display sounds like a problem. Capture a screen print and show us what your red text shows. Something is amiss, or maybe something in FSX.cfg has eliminated displaying that.
Am I supposed to put the ".dll" files in my module folder? What am I missing here? Anyone have any idea what I am doing wrong, or is anyone else having similar results? This sounds like a dandy contribution, but these old ears have another short between them.
>>>>>>>>>>>> What I am doing that works is just run the .jar GUI from within the folder the entire applet is in, then click that batch file created by the GUI. I sounds like you've done this correctly. I DEFINITELY have a hard lock on frames--well, the FSX counter varies within a tiny range 99% of the time, but I have seen it as high as 37, but this is rare rare. Moves between 29 and 31 when set at the default 30, even when I am in areas I would be seeing 100 FPS UNLIMITED. So yes, it is a quite firm, but not rigid lock.
Noel
Mar 4 2009, 10:55 PM
QUOTE (Noel @ Mar 4 2009, 07:50 AM)

It's irrelevant fortunately. It was done because FSX's frame counter bounced around between 29.5 and 30.7 or so. You will find this works exactly as advertised. In areas where you would normally see 60 or 70 frames in UNLIMITED, you will now see 30, give or take a fraction. I tried to capture one spot on 30, but missed. FRAPS updates slower, and so sits on 30 more consistently. Save yourself the skeptic mode--go check it out, you'll be glad you did I'm sure

Test it out and see if it is an issue for you:
1. Set frames to 30 within FSX.
2. Open up a flight situation where frames are unable to stay steady over about 24 or so that is constant (ie, you're not moving around). For example, in a heavy in a big terminal with heavy clouds or whatever it takes to bring your machine down to about 24 or so when frames are locked within FSX at 30.
3. Now change to UNLIMITED.
If you experience something similar to me, you will see your displayed frame rate come up considerably--maybe 20% or so.
The issue again is, this applet lets you run at UNLIMITED, with no downside of creating potential for surges/spikes. Have you seen surges/spikes in UNLIMITED MODE? If you haven't noticed this, that's great. It's an issue for me from FS9 and a much different couple of machines to this current rig and FSX. I've read of others who have noticed this. I'm sure it can be worse in some than in other rigs, dependent perhaps on many issues that allow a system to "breath" a bit too much in low complexity areas. There also may be other ways to resolve this, however this is my first success in this issue so it is exciting to me!
napamule
Mar 4 2009, 11:34 PM
This Java 'Gizmo' (sorry about the pun) has an 'F' key so you can INCREASE the fps? Why? You're at UNLIMITED already. (Huh?-Does not compute). Perhaps it means what it says by it's name: LIMITER. Perhaps it sets fps to 96% (97%?). In the past posts on this subject reached the concensus to NOT set it to unlimited, but to 99% (97%?). And then adjust sliders to get rid of stutters. Maybe it 'limits' the sliders, too. Maybe it should of been called 'AUTO LIMITER 97% Version Oh two (much)'. LMHO. (Clever guy).
Chuck B
Napamule
Noel
Mar 5 2009, 01:16 AM
QUOTE (napamule @ Mar 5 2009, 04:34 AM)

This Java 'Gizmo' (sorry about the pun) has an 'F' key so you can INCREASE the fps? Why? You're at UNLIMITED already. (Huh?-Does not compute). Perhaps it means what it says by it's name: LIMITER. Perhaps it sets fps to 96% (97%?). In the past posts on this subject reached the concensus to NOT set it to unlimited, but to 99% (97%?). And then adjust sliders to get rid of stutters. Maybe it 'limits' the sliders, too. Maybe it should of been called 'AUTO LIMITER 97% Version Oh two (much)'. LMHO. (Clever guy).
Chuck B
Napamule
Come on Chucky B, if you had spent half the time you took to type out this drivel reading the original post you wouldn't need to type out such drivel.
I would imagine the realtime control could be used for dialing in an optimal lock while flying/gaming.
flilotUK
Mar 5 2009, 07:53 AM
QUOTE (napamule @ Mar 5 2009, 04:34 AM)

This Java 'Gizmo' (sorry about the pun) has an 'F' key so you can INCREASE the fps? Why? You're at UNLIMITED already. (Huh?-Does not compute). Perhaps it means what it says by it's name: LIMITER. Perhaps it sets fps to 96% (97%?). In the past posts on this subject reached the concensus to NOT set it to unlimited, but to 99% (97%?). And then adjust sliders to get rid of stutters. Maybe it 'limits' the sliders, too. Maybe it should of been called 'AUTO LIMITER 97% Version Oh two (much)'. LMHO. (Clever guy).
Chuck B
Napamule
Wow, someone found rabbit droppings in their cereal today huh? Or fell out the wrong side of bed and stubbed their toe?
The F key to 'increase' FPS is to increase the LIMIT on FPS, not increase FPS overall - i.e. if you lock FPS using this utility at 25, you could increase that limit to 30 using the F key while the game is running. Pretty simple if you think about rather than rashly sit there and bash away at your keyboard with such replies...
sargeski
Mar 5 2009, 08:30 AM
Noel,
Thanks for sharing the info. I played with the limiter quite a bit yesterday and I can confirm that it really does smooth things out when you run FSX at unlimited and then use the utility to lock the frames.
jaskanFactor
Mar 5 2009, 08:33 AM
QUOTE (flilotUK @ Mar 5 2009, 12:53 PM)

Wow, someone found rabbit droppings in their cereal today huh? Or fell out the wrong side of bed and stubbed their toe?
The F key to 'increase' FPS is to increase the LIMIT on FPS, not increase FPS overall - i.e. if you lock FPS using this utility at 25, you could increase that limit to 30 using the F key while the game is running. Pretty simple if you think about rather than rashly sit there and bash away at your keyboard with such replies...
Sorry Sorry Sorry, have mercy on us who have fewer brain cells than the rest of you,
Dougal
Mar 5 2009, 10:23 AM
QUOTE (jaskanFactor @ Mar 5 2009, 01:33 PM)

Sorry Sorry Sorry, have mercy on us who have fewer brain cells than the rest of you,
I can't even make it run
The application doesn't seem to 'DO' anything!..I tried downloading another copy.
Am I 'THAT' stupid? No..... don't answer that
flilotUK
Mar 5 2009, 10:26 AM
QUOTE (Dougal @ Mar 5 2009, 03:23 PM)

I can't even make it run
The application doesn't seem to 'DO' anything!..I tried downloading another copy.
Am I 'THAT' stupid? No..... don't answer that

Run the
FPS_Limiter_GUI file to run the program.
You'll need java installed to run it:
Download Java
jordanal
Mar 5 2009, 11:27 AM
Sorry,
I haven't had a chance to play with this tool yet, but I'm wondering what affects it has on distant blurries? I have always had the mindset to lock the FPS in FS @ 24 or 30 so that available resources can concentrate on distant textures and other threads. Remember, FS has always been about balancing all the necessary processes. Now I understand the willingness to go unlimited if you're in a low poly FS enviornment or on a high-spec machine that will allow it, without much scenery degridation and hence I can see the need for this tool to stop the stutters and spikes. But I really have to ask myself, what other other threads would not get the proper priorty if I'm tricking (locking) the display engine from outside the FS environment? Distant blurries (of the third kind?) are the first thing that come to mind.
Nick_N
Mar 5 2009, 12:35 PM
QUOTE (Omzig @ Mar 4 2009, 06:34 AM)

Glad to hear it worked for you :)
Heres a
LINK to the file mirror at my own RS account
Im Omzig here but else where in the FS community im know as Gizmo,you may have seen or even used a few of my repaints (infact i have one in the Avsim AVSIM Reader's Choice Awards Best freeware other VH-AIF HD repaint for the carenado C152)
I havent tryed this tweak myself in FSX (although i've used it with other games)as im a DX10 flyer (made my own custom water normals for DX10) but i'll be giving it a look in DX9 now that Noel has posted a glowing review
Cheers
Gizmo
This is very interesting application.
Most people do not understand the issue. Phil Taylor noted the problem with the release of FSX SP1 whereby Vsync and UNLIMTED FPS creating wild swings in the frame rate. Add in the thread collisions occurring between terrain and autogen and you end up with a very difficult situation to tune.
I just did a quick test with this app and I can see where there is value with it and this is something of high interest to me. Bravo Gizmo, bravo.
One strange thing... I am seeing something I never did before and that is the autogen is not keeping up with the FA/18 at high speed. Flying 800Kts about 1000ft over Paris @ 100% scenery + overcast conditions the city autogen did not appear until the aircraft was directly over the structures effectively leaving the forward view baron of autogen, however the frames always remained 24-30. It appears some type of priority change is taking place with this app running and throttling UNLIMITED frames.
There was still a bit of stutter involved.. I mean lets be realistic. In that situation I was hammering the system with everything but the kitchen sink flying M1+ over Paris with those scenery/weather settings and passing over Orly and Charlie-de.
Now of course not many would ever do such flying but what I see with this tool is consistency. It did not resolve every stutter and I was able to run 1 notch higher on the AG slider in a test flight out of KSEA in the 747
without the tool running and set to UNLIMITED however by running the same exact settings I posted in the FSX tuning thread at Simforums, and, running UTX with moving traffic enabled, 1 notch lower (Very Dense) in autogen produced the same smooth result using this tool as running UNLIMTED without the tool. I can deal with that.
I definitely see value in using this tool however those who do not know how to tune FSX correctly or refuse to accept their hardware limits and do not correctly balance their system to the sliders may see consistently worse performance over better using this tool. Its apparent to me, at this point, in the past I would enter settings to change the frame lock flying from bush to urban but now the change would be the AG slider instead.. regardless what I am seeing is a consistent result thus far and that alone intrigues me since there are so many BS fixes posted (ie; HT enabled on i7 for one) that its refreshing to see something produce a defined result that can be repeated and defined by tuning.
Good work Gizmo
I need a lot more time to look this over in depth and right now I am focused on GEX Europe. If it pans out I will add this to the tuning list and what I find produces the best universally consistent result.
I would not call this an 'Optimizer" ... Its more in line with the term "governor" which attacks the issue brought on by the design of SP1/2
Nick_N
Mar 5 2009, 12:50 PM
@ Noel:
If this is the question you were referring to in another thread, I am sorry I missed it. I am so busy right now with GEX Europe the only thing I have had time to do recently is post production images of GEX Europe over at Simforums in the EU thread there. I have not been forum surfing very much lately. Thank you for bringing this to our attention Noel. Bravo to you as well.
I will get an in-depth look at the ins and outs of using it as soon as I can
irocx
Mar 5 2009, 01:29 PM
Gizmo, any chance you could upload your app to the Avsim library? Many can't seem to get a download slot at RS. Thanks.
harryrupert
Mar 5 2009, 02:21 PM
QUOTE (Omzig @ Mar 4 2009, 02:34 PM)

Glad to hear it worked for you :)
Heres a
LINK to the file mirror at my own RS account
Im Omzig here but else where in the FS community im know as Gizmo,you may have seen or even used a few of my repaints (infact i have one in the Avsim AVSIM Reader's Choice Awards Best freeware other VH-AIF HD repaint for the carenado C152)
I havent tryed this tweak myself in FSX (although i've used it with other games)as im a DX10 flyer (made my own custom water normals for DX10) but i'll be giving it a look in DX9 now that Noel has posted a glowing review
Cheers
Gizmo
I have downloaded your file, 12.35 kb , obtained a Winrar extractor, however when I extract the file I get amessage that the archive is empty, I'm doing some silly I guess but don't know what! (could it be that my O/S is vista 64?)
Hi Gizmo,Sorry to have bothered you the file i kept downloading wasn't complete, should be 166kb, as I have not got a premium a/c I will have to wait until I get download it properly.
Thanks
Harry
rhodges
Mar 5 2009, 02:31 PM
Thanks Noel:
Your suggestion on my FSX.cfg for not seeing "Unlimited" in the display was correct. My problem was that I had the "average framerate" edit and my assumption is that it replaced the "unlimited" text. I backed up what I had and let it rebuild fsx.cfg, and I got the "Unlimited" text. By a process of elimination I found that the "average" provisions was the culprit. My other findings were as follows:
1. Of course when I let FSX startup rebuild by cfg file, I got the old FSX default flight. I had forgotten what kind of framerates were possible when nothing is complex in the middle of nowhere.
2. I tried several limitations: (i.e. 20. 30, 40, 50, 60 etc.) . It definitely does work!
3. Apparently my system may not be quite as stable as yours, but it appears that I occasinally may cycle as much as ten above my limited setting. As you mentioned. "Rarely" I saw a spike above that. When set to 20, I do get cycling on between 20 and 30. Set at 30, cycling into the mid 30's etc.
4. Really, my performance was reasonably smooth before this implementation. However, I will accept all the help I can get, and this may make it even better. An added frame rate or two is always appreciated.
Thanks again:
RTH
Omzig
Mar 5 2009, 03:12 PM
Hey guys
Glad your finding this app useful but i didnt code this i just found it while i was looking for something to curb my stuttering in Fallout3,i spyed Noels post about a frame limiter for FSX and it came to mind to suggest this app
If you cant get it my RS link try this Filefont
MIRRORI havent tryed it myself in FSX as i fly in DX10 and have my system blanced and i dont want to rock the apple cart the only thing that sets my system off on a barrny is heavy clouds but this is due to ATI's drivers/hardware design combo for the 4870...i'll keep moaning at them via feedback to see if it will get fixed ;)
Very interesting in reading all the feedback though anything that can help bring smoother simming is always a good thing in my book & if i come across anything for DX10 i'll be sure to post about it
Cheers
Gizmo
Nick_N
Mar 5 2009, 04:23 PM
QUOTE (Omzig @ Mar 5 2009, 12:12 PM)

Hey guys
Glad your finding this app useful but i didnt code this i just found it while i was looking for something to curb my stuttering in Fallout3,i spyed Noels post about a frame limiter for FSX and it came to mind to suggest this app
If you cant get it my RS link try this Filefont
MIRRORI havent tryed it myself in FSX as i fly in DX10 and have my system blanced and i dont want to rock the apple cart the only thing that sets my system off on a barrny is heavy clouds but this is due to ATI's drivers/hardware design combo for the 4870...i'll keep moaning at them via feedback to see if it will get fixed ;)
Very interesting in reading all the feedback though anything that can help bring smoother simming is always a good thing in my book & if i come across anything for DX10 i'll be sure to post about it
Cheers
Gizmo
Regardless Gizmo.. thanks for introducing the tool and thanks to Noel for posting this
I have been using it while testing GEX EU with really hard hitting payware aircraft and there is a consistent defined positive difference. No longer is frame lock/scenery in combo trimmed but autogen and scenery complexity only, exactly what the application
should display in perf/tuning behavior.it produces a TRUE linear result!
This is an excellent find
Since this allows FSX to be set to throw everything at the hardware but limit the issue cause by SP1/SP2 it certainly looks as if it is successfully solving a problem that has been around for almost 2 years
victorwest2
Mar 5 2009, 05:02 PM
I've unzipped the rar file. What do I need to do now to install it?
Thanks.
Ah! I'm supposed to open the FPS_Limiter_Gui.jar file. But when I double click on it all it does is open up the program I used to open the rar file.
Nick_N
Mar 5 2009, 05:29 PM
QUOTE (victorwest2 @ Mar 5 2009, 02:02 PM)

I've unzipped the rar file. What do I need to do now to install it?
Thanks.
Ah! I'm supposed to open the FPS_Limiter_Gui.jar file. But when I double click on it all it does is open up the program I used to open the rar file.
============================================================
This was introduced in another forum
Credit goes to Gizmo and Noel for bringing to our attention
This may be one of the all-time best tweaks to use however at this point testing is limited to a small number of users
Download this tool
http://rapidshare.com/files/205205148/FPS_Limiter_0.2.raror from here
http://files.filefront.com/FPS+Limiter+02r...;/fileinfo.htmlUnrar/unzip
Be aware that where you place the folder must remain or it will break its use and you will need to reconfigure the bat file
USE:
Run FPS_Limiter_GUI.jar and click SEARCH EXECUTABLE
browse for and select FSX.exe
set frame limit to 30 under MAXIMUM FPS
Click CREATE BAT
Once complete close the interface and use the created file:
fsx.exe.limited.bat to start FSX (double click it)
set frame lock to UNLIMTED in FSX and use the AG slider to tune
You MUST have JAVA installed to use that interface
http://www.java.com/en/Now here is the deal... this attacks the UNLIMITED FRAME LOCK problem related to Vsync introduced by Aces in SP1/SP2. Instead of tuning the FRAME LOCK you will tune the AUTOGEN slider for smooth results where you are flying. Leave the FSX frame lock slider at UNLIMITED at all times.
You can fine tune this app as well...
I found 30 was the sweet spot for all occasions. I would suggest no less than 24 and no more than 30 but start with 30.
FSX must always be started by clicking the created command line BAT file.. NOT the FSX desktop icon
See if this has a positive effect... especially you i7 people
and try this WITHOUT the affinity mask setting in the config file
The issue this tool attacks is the one introduced with SP1/SP2 whereby Vsync creates HI/LOW stammer in the frame rate. Using this tool as posted will allow the full priority of UNLIMITED to the application by the hardware but governs the frame rate stammer.
==============================================================
jordanal
Mar 5 2009, 05:41 PM
Nick,
How does this affect your nHancer setting recommendations? vSync for example. I realize nothing is concrete yet, but can you think of any changes off the top of your head?
Nick_N
Mar 5 2009, 05:47 PM
QUOTE (jordanal @ Mar 5 2009, 02:41 PM)

Nick,
How does this affect your nHancer setting recommendations? vSync for example. I realize nothing is concrete yet, but can you think of any changes off the top of your head?
everything is EXACTLY the same
if there was any need to change driver settings.. I would have posted it
Vsync MUST be enabled or you will get image wiggle and tearing
Use the autogen slider to fine tune
I do not know if this may effect the bufferpool suggestion.. it may since the priority to autogen seems to have been shifted. When I get some good sit-down time with this I will look into that. Right now the driver and FSX settings I use are exactly what I posted in the FSX tuning thread and I shift the autogen slider depending on the area/scenery/amount of trees
So far 'Very Dense' is as low as I have needed to go
windycloud
Mar 5 2009, 05:52 PM
This is probably a silly question but does FS2004 benefit from this as well?
Jason
napamule
Mar 5 2009, 06:16 PM
Joel,
I did read orig post. Right away I noticed 'Omzig' is Gizmo backwards. Sharp eye, eh? Brain cells slider max right, with no limiter, on that one. And my name is 'Chuck', NOT Chucky (or Chuckie). Thank you very much.
But seriously, I respect Nick_N's accessment, and I take it all back: moaijofglasdklfsfysdfladf (heehee). F key is for LIMITER FPS increase, NOT FSX's-got it!
So, if your rig 'can't handle' Unlimited in FSX to start with, setting to 30 fps in LIMITER may just help to smooth things out, 'overall', and depending on auto-gen slider (the one that REALLY bogs FSX). I buy that. I don't dare, for example, use lens bloom, and turn off 'a/c shodow', and 'buildings shadow'. I get 20 fps.
So, thanks Joel (and Gizmo) for giving us this applet (I owe you each a case..). I'm glad I came in here (skeptic that I am of those 'miracle' booster ('BS') utilitys and 'tweaks'). Now I go try it. I hope it will help FRAPS make smoother videos for me. That would be peachy. Cheers.
Chuck B
Napamule
PS: NO I wouldn't EVEN think of using it with FS2004 / FS9. But, YOU could try it. Not me. Anyway, I get steady frames in FS9, so why bother.
victorwest2
Mar 5 2009, 06:55 PM
Many thanks Nick. I found my problem was caused by not having Java properly installed. All fixed now.
Nick_N
Mar 5 2009, 07:14 PM
I have now confirmed that bufferpools and TBM should not be altered
My systems run a 70000000 BP on the 8800GTX and a 100000000 on the GTX 285
The QX system runs a 80 TBM and the i7 runs a 90 TBM
Both remain the same
Removing BP caused surge/stammer over large amounts of forest trees especially in turns. So what ever you use now that is smooth, keep it locked there
Noel
Mar 5 2009, 10:19 PM
QUOTE (Nick_N @ Mar 5 2009, 05:50 PM)

@ Noel:
If this is the question you were referring to in another thread, I am sorry I missed it. I am so busy right now with GEX Europe the only thing I have had time to do recently is post production images of GEX Europe over at Simforums in the EU thread there. I have not been forum surfing very much lately. Thank you for bringing this to our attention Noel. Bravo to you as well.
I will get an in-depth look at the ins and outs of using it as soon as I can
Thanks, it was. I have been wondering about this (in threads from months if not years ago) when I realized a downstream limiter should stop surges coming out of the processing bed that negatively impact the generally superior performance that comes with UNLIMITED.
I have used it for several of my typical flights and I am tickled pink. It seems to be doing what I had hoped. I flew the SuperMD80 pro from KPDX to CYVR in full ASX weather, 110 mile cloud vis a max density, water up, etc and while frames went down as low as 19 briefly in some areas it was ALWAYS smooth, and when processing load softened there was not hint of a surges or spikes. It was one of the most stable and smooth flights
in this sort of flight environment that I've seen in a while.
It is almost my only contribution to the simming world here, and I'm glad it seems to be working out. As far as I can tell, I don't think Giz had made the connection between the application and FSX, though he was definitely on track since he was seeking it for another application. When I googled for FPS limiters in the past the file was available to members of the X-plane forums. They must have been using it. What really puzzles me is why someone else in the FSX world didn't see this a while ago. I'm not sure when the app was first released.
I do agree, there will be some machines that will benefit from this (the ones prone to surging/spiking). There may also be some more tuning you can do as in optimizing the BEST lock for the particular situation you are in by using the realtime lock control. That's a pretty cool idea and I'm glad it was implemented.
Noel
Noel
Mar 5 2009, 10:28 PM
QUOTE (sargeski @ Mar 5 2009, 01:30 PM)

Noel,
Thanks for sharing the info. I played with the limiter quite a bit yesterday and I can confirm that it really does smooth things out when you run FSX at unlimited and then use the utility to lock the frames.
You are welcome Sarg. I haven't contributed much to the simming world and I have to feel good this theory I had that Omzig graciously responded to seems to be worth something. We are going to have FSX for a while it appears and I think it will have applicability to alot of machines. Have to look up the author . . .
planenut
Mar 5 2009, 10:54 PM
QUOTE (victorwest2 @ Mar 5 2009, 11:55 PM)

Many thanks Nick. I found my problem was caused by not having Java properly installed. All fixed now.
Could you tell me what you had to do to get Java installed? I downloaded it and it seemed to install correctley but I can't get the FSX.exe bat file to work.
Is there someth;ing else I have to do with Java. Thanks.
Jim
jaskanFactor
Mar 5 2009, 11:29 PM
I now know why many of us have been having trouble getting Fps_limiter_gui.jar to run
The problem is caused by winrar thinking .jar file is an archive file.
To Fix this
Goto WinRar->OPtions->settings->integration
And uncheck jar, from list of files types used by winRAR.
Now if you click on Fps_limiter_gui.jar you should see the Fps_limiter GUI window
Noel
Mar 5 2009, 11:51 PM
QUOTE (jaskanFactor @ Mar 6 2009, 04:29 AM)

I now know why many of us have been having trouble getting Fps_limiter_gui.jar to run
The problem is caused by winrar thinking .jar file is an archive file.
To Fix this
Goto WinRar->OPtions->settings->integration
And uncheck jar, from list of files types used by winRAR.
Now if you click on Fps_limiter_gui.jar you should see the Fps_limiter GUI window
The other thing is that if you are just installing Java you have to make sure it is enabled in your browser and maybe have to restart (your browser and/or your system with a reboot).
jaskanFactor
Mar 6 2009, 12:00 AM
QUOTE (Noel @ Mar 6 2009, 04:51 AM)

The other thing is that if you are just installing Java you have to make sure it is enabled in your browser and maybe have to restart (your browser and/or your system with a reboot).
OK, i can comfirm no need for reboot after installing Sun Java, the tool does not work with microsoft java just Sun.
I NEED HELP UNDERSTANDING HOW THESE WORK
- New command line switch to set the desired fps (/f:x), default is 30
- New command line switch to enable or disable logging (/l:ON|OFF), default is OFF
- New ingame keys to change the desired fps (F10 decrease / F11 increase)
- New ingame fps display, show or hide with F12, command line switch is /x:ON|OFF, default is OFF
1 = For example what do you type in the FSX to change FPS, and where do you type it. Is it /f:25 to set FPS 25 or what ? confused
2 = Is it possible to change the keys used for this,
cause i got every key mentioned above mapped to atleast two things each in FSX3 = Can i close the console window opened by the batch file once FSX is up
bursco
Mar 6 2009, 05:01 AM
QUOTE (jaskanFactor @ Mar 6 2009, 05:00 AM)

OK, i can comfirm no need for reboot after installing Sun Java, the tool does not work with microsoft java just Sun.
I NEED HELP UNDERSTANDING HOW THESE WORK
- New command line switch to set the desired fps (/f:x), default is 30
- New command line switch to enable or disable logging (/l:ON|OFF), default is OFF
- New ingame keys to change the desired fps (F10 decrease / F11 increase)
- New ingame fps display, show or hide with F12, command line switch is /x:ON|OFF, default is OFF
1 = For example what do you type in the FSX to change FPS, and where do you type it. Is it /f:25 to set FPS 25 or what ? confused
2 = Is it possible to change the keys used for this, cause i got every key mentioned above mapped to atleast two things each in FSX
3 = Can i close the console window opened by the batch file once FSX is up
I can answer no 1 - where the red is around the 30 in attachment - place your cursor there to change it 20,30 etc - this will appear in FSX - I also would like answers to nos 2 and 3 ??

I found it works for me - really good util for FSX.
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