Jump to content

  •  


   
Where Flight Simulation Enthusiasts Gather from Around the World!

HOT SPOTS:
 rarrow.gif The 2014 Demographic Survey! - NEW!

rarrow.gif What's new in the Library

rarrow.gif Member Blogs

rarrow.gif Member Reviews - Contribute a Review!
rarrow.gif Bargain Hunters Forum
rarrow.gif Classified, Want, Swap Ads

rarrow.gif AVSIM Team Speak System

rarrow.gif Video Library
rarrow.gif Image Gallery
rarrow.gif Community Links Library
rarrow.gif Tutorials

rarrow.gif FS9. FSX & P3D CTD Guide

rarrow.gif FSX / P3D Configuration Guide

rarrow.gif AVSIM Publications 



Simulation's Premier Resource!

AVSIM is a free service to the flight and simulation communities. Please help us keep it that way. Donate what you can today! Thank you for your support!











. . .
Photo
- - - - -

The new "wide-screen" displays...


  • Please log in to reply
16 replies to this topic

#1 Clutch Cargo

Clutch Cargo

    Member - 1,000+

  • Members
  • 1,798 posts
  • Joined 8 Years, 9 Months and 11 Days Ago.

Posted 02 August 2009 - 10:57 AM

I have been starting to look at a multiple display set-up and have noticed all the manufactures seem to be moving to the wide-screen format. I would think this could add distortion to panels in FS2004 even more than the typical "oval" gauges I read about. I was originally looking at 24" but now it looks like I would need a newer 27" wide-screen to match the sae "floorspace", sort of speak. And the larger wide-screen monitors have the same resolution specs as smaller ones so would that mean things are just getting bigger, not sharper?Anybody using these in FS2004/FSX? What's your opinions?Also, are "glossy" displays sharper than the matte type versions? Would like to go with a matte to reduce the glare and reflections but they never seem quite as good in the stores.thx,Clutch

Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

#2 january

january

    Member - 2,000+

  • Members
  • 2,531 posts
  • Joined 7 Years, 3 Months and 29 Days Ago.

Posted 02 August 2009 - 04:35 PM

I have been starting to look at a multiple display set-up and have noticed all the manufactures seem to be moving to the wide-screen format. I would think this could add distortion to panels in FS2004 even more than the typical "oval" gauges I read about. I was originally looking at 24" but now it looks like I would need a newer 27" wide-screen to match the sae "floorspace", sort of speak. And the larger wide-screen monitors have the same resolution specs as smaller ones so would that mean things are just getting bigger, not sharper?Clutch

Clutch- With a wide screen monitor, you could simply drag the right edge of the 2D panel back to the left until gauges are round again. Then fill in the new blank space with a popup or two. Here are a couple of simulated screenshots to show what might be accomplished. These were dummied up on my 4:3 mons- the black areas are unused portions of the monitors to make them look like wide screens. I think they look better than the usual 4:3 arrangement!When you increase monitor size, you probably will need to use a higher resolution to offset coarseness from the increased pixel size. But more pixels means more load on your puter!My monitors are all 4:3 ratio - 18"CRT & 2 17" LCDs. This config produces a visual perspective of about 45" width at 26" eye to screen. If I used larger mons, they probably would be placed a bit further away- with no further real gain to perspective width. I don't think they would accomplish much for me. My present triple monitor Field of View is about 160

#3 McCrash

McCrash

    Member - 2,000+

  • Members
  • 2,484 posts
  • Joined 10 Years, 11 Months and 29 Days Ago.

Posted 02 August 2009 - 06:23 PM

For my FSX system I use an LG W2600H (26") and really like it. On another system I have an LG L227WGT and it' very nice too.The L227 is glossy and makes no difference as far as I can tell. Choose a monitor that has one or more of the resolutions in FSX/FS9, and as high as possible. With my 26" I run at it 1920 x 1200.Great place for information, reviews and help --> http://www.widescree...orum.com/forum/

#4 JRMurray

JRMurray

    Member

  • Members
  • 428 posts
  • Joined 11 Years, 7 Months and 26 Days Ago.

Posted 02 August 2009 - 09:22 PM

Anybody using these in FS2004/FSX?

I do ... All of my flying is in the virtual cockpit of FSX aircraft. With VCs, there's no worry of distortion at all.For 2D cockpits, however, there can be distortion unless a widescreen version of the 2D cockpit is included (for example, PMDG's MD-11).
Joel Murray @ CYVR (actually, somewhere between CYNJ and CZBB, but quite close to CSK8) Posted Image

#5 january

january

    Member - 2,000+

  • Members
  • 2,531 posts
  • Joined 7 Years, 3 Months and 29 Days Ago.

Posted 03 August 2009 - 11:44 AM

I do ... All of my flying is in the virtual cockpit of FSX aircraft. With VCs, there's no worry of distortion at all.For 2D cockpits, however, there can be distortion unless a widescreen version of the 2D cockpit is included (for example, PMDG's MD-11).

See my reply above with pics as to using widescreen mons with standard-4:3 2D panels and no distortion.Alex Reid

#6 betelgeuse

betelgeuse

    Member

  • Silver
  • 633 posts
  • Joined 11 Years, 5 Months and 20 Days Ago.

Donator

Posted 18 August 2009 - 03:05 PM

Clutch- With a wide screen monitor, you could simply drag the right edge of the 2D panel back to the left until gauges are round again. Then fill in the new blank space with a popup or two.

Alex, I am always envious of your setups but try as I do, I can never replicate them! Sometimes I get lost in the maths - perspectives, projections, resolutions, angles, bezels and so on.I recently got rid of my very old 4:3 CRT mon and bought a 24 inch widescreen. I run FS9 and like it very much. I would like it better if I could do what you suggest i.e. 'bring in the sides and add a popup or two'.How can I add 2D popups to the black bands on either side of my 24 inch screen? I'd like to create a cockpit view as shown in your top photo.ThanksJohn

Supporter.png

 

John


#7 january

january

    Member - 2,000+

  • Members
  • 2,531 posts
  • Joined 7 Years, 3 Months and 29 Days Ago.

Posted 18 August 2009 - 04:21 PM

Alex, I am always envious of your setups but try as I do, I can never replicate them! Sometimes I get lost in the maths - perspectives, projections, resolutions, angles, bezels and so on.I recently got rid of my very old 4:3 CRT mon and bought a 24 inch widescreen. I run FS9 and like it very much. I would like it better if I could do what you suggest i.e. 'bring in the sides and add a popup or two'.How can I add 2D popups to the black bands on either side of my 24 inch screen? I'd like to create a cockpit view as shown in your top photo.ThanksJohn

John- top pic is a screeshot of 3 separate monitors side by side.You should be able to add 2D popups to your single monitor. Is there not a setting which allows the 2D panel to be stretched across the whole screen? (No black bands either side- but round gauges become ovals.)Then using the cursor, drag the right edge of the panel back to the left until gauges are round again. This leaves a black space to be filled in with popups resized to fit and mate with the 2D panel.The second pic is a mockup of this- done on a 4:3 monitor. The black at the bottom is unused screen to simulate the proportions of a widescreen. The side black rectangles are inactive monitors 2 & 3.When you're happy, save the flight so you don't have to repeat every session.Alex Reid

#8 betelgeuse

betelgeuse

    Member

  • Silver
  • 633 posts
  • Joined 11 Years, 5 Months and 20 Days Ago.

Donator

Posted 19 August 2009 - 10:41 AM

John- top pic is a screeshot of 3 separate monitors side by side.You should be able to add 2D popups to your single monitor.

Thanks, Alex. Yes, I can stretch the screen and make oval gauges! I can squash the screen again, centre it with the cursor, and create round gauges. This produces narrow 'empty' black bands on either side of the main cockpit view. That bit is easy! My difficulty is finding the 2-D pop ups to which you refer. There might then be diffulties mating these to the central window. Do you mean GPS, map, FSNav etc pop-ups? At the moment I undock those as required and drag them to a separate screen (dual screen set up). What I would like to do is extend the front left and front right cockpit views on the wide screen as though these were on separate monitors - to fill the narrow black bands with scenery views. I realise that only a small extra part of the front left and front right views could be added - not a whole screen full as in your top photo. Sorry if I am not making myself clear.

Supporter.png

 

John


#9 duckbilled

duckbilled

    Member - 1,000+

  • Members
  • 1,869 posts
  • Joined 11 Years, 1 Month and 24 Days Ago.

Posted 19 August 2009 - 11:46 AM

Please correct me if I am wrong:When flying w/2d, you will either have oval gauges or empty space when in wide screen because most of the panel bitmaps are designed for 4:3When flying in VC, it doesn't matter, the panel will be fine either way. I'm not just concerned about oval gauges, I also don't want the scenery to appear stretched. How will the scenery appear in FSX in wide screen in VC view? Is it the same for FS9 and FSX or is it different?I am planning to move to FSX in the near future with a new rig. In FS9, I tend to fly in 2d. With FSX, I'll probably move to vc only because of the lack of side views in FSX
Jeff

Save a Life: adopt a retired racing greyhound

Posted Image

#10 january

january

    Member - 2,000+

  • Members
  • 2,531 posts
  • Joined 7 Years, 3 Months and 29 Days Ago.

Posted 19 August 2009 - 03:30 PM

Thanks, Alex. Yes, I can stretch the screen and make oval gauges! I can squash the screen again, centre it with the cursor, and create round gauges. This produces narrow 'empty' black bands on either side of the main cockpit view. That bit is easy! My difficulty is finding the 2-D pop ups to which you refer. There might then be diffulties mating these to the central window. Do you mean GPS, map, FSNav etc pop-ups? At the moment I undock those as required and drag them to a separate screen (dual screen set up). What I would like to do is extend the front left and front right cockpit views on the wide screen as though these were on separate monitors - to fill the narrow black bands with scenery views. I realise that only a small extra part of the front left and front right views could be added - not a whole screen full as in your top photo.

John-you want to 'squash' the main 2D panel so gauges are round AND the panel is dragged to left side of the monitor. Black band only on right side. You may find that this step is best done with the screen minimized- the middle box at right very top edge of the screen shows a NARROW black band. This setting allows you to drag the edge of the panel inward without also dragging the edge of the view. When you have everything positioned as you wish, then click this box to maximize (WIDE black band) the whole thing.You now should be able to open any popup, drag it to fill in the black area on the right and resize it to neatly fit in. Or drag it to your second mon.The popups I think of, are Throttles, CDUs, GPS, Sw panels, Lower Eicas display, Com panel etc etc. They are different for each aircraft - which has different click spots around the panel to cause each to "popup".If you click on the FS top menu bar on 'Views' then 'Instrument Panel' you will see a complete list of popups for that plane. You can also click there to open any of these.Are you familiar with resizing? Just grab an edge of a popup and while holding down the mouse button move the cursor to change the size of the popup. Or click anywhere on the interior of a popup, hold the mouse button down and drag the cursor & popup to where you want it. ------It is possible to have multiple views on a single monitor but they need to be all equal sized or there will be some horrible distortions. In addition, frame rate will be severely impacted. For all practical purposes- one view per monitor. But at least why not put a second view on your second monitor. You can overlay or layer GPS, maps. popups etc and as long as you leave a visible click spot for each to bring it to the top as needed- for all practical purposes you have a monitor dedicated to each!The pic shows how that works for me on Ready for Pushback 747. Hope all this makes sense.Alex ReidReady For Pushback with popups only a click away. I did have Views L & R Fwd as well but it was just too much for my six year old "puter![attachment=8521:Ready_fo...Layering.JPG]

#11 betelgeuse

betelgeuse

    Member

  • Silver
  • 633 posts
  • Joined 11 Years, 5 Months and 20 Days Ago.

Donator

Posted 20 August 2009 - 04:43 PM

Thanks, Alex. This is my widescreen showing the black bands I've created either side of the main view in FS9. In fact the black bands are broader x2 than shown.[attachment=8539:widescreen_F_50.jpg]I hoped that I could fill these bands with front left and right scenery views but it seems from what you say that I cannot without getting distortion. The old CRTs I use for popups of panels etc produce very faded images now and would be unsuitable for scenery. Thanks anyway for your suggestions. Just one other thing - how do you take the photos of your triple monitor set up?John

Supporter.png

 

John


#12 january

january

    Member - 2,000+

  • Members
  • 2,531 posts
  • Joined 7 Years, 3 Months and 29 Days Ago.

Posted 20 August 2009 - 06:27 PM

Thanks, Alex. This is my widescreen showing the black bands I've created either side of the main view in FS9. In fact the black bands are broader x2 than shown.I hoped that I could fill these bands with front left and right scenery views but it seems from what you say that I cannot without getting distortion. The old CRTs I use for popups of panels etc produce very faded images now and would be unsuitable for scenery. Thanks anyway for your suggestions. Just one other thing - how do you take the photos of your triple monitor set up?John

John-I may have spoken too quickly. Just tried an experiment to drag a secondary view (VRFwd) off the far/outer edge of its monitor so only a small portion remained. Worked OK with no penalties I could see. So you probably can display a piece of secondary views on your main mon. The secondary views will have to be same size as main view before dragging off the main screen. BUT be aware that allowing a view from one monitor to overlap even the the edge of an adjacent monitor causes a frame rate hit. If you have a good machine you might get away with it. EXPERIMENT!!! Try dragging a view off the main monitor edge where you do not have an adjacent mon. (Gets hard to explain!!)----------(17-19" used 4:3 LCDs are pretty cheap now- everyone wants a widescreen- and good 17-21 CRTs are giveaways here! Most go to the recycle yard for destruction.)----------Re screenshots- I just hit print screen, minimize FS, then go into Paint/Edit/Paste. Then Save As JPeg. This results in a screenshot being placed in MyPictures. With triple monitors, it always results in a pic that is way over AVSIM limits for size- ie must be no more than 200K pixels and 1024 x 768 size. I reduce the pic with some peculiar but simple manipulations within My Pictures-ready for posting to AVSIM. Takes about 10 seconds to convert a pic. Let me know if you want the details.Cheers Alex Reid

#13 january

january

    Member - 2,000+

  • Members
  • 2,531 posts
  • Joined 7 Years, 3 Months and 29 Days Ago.

Posted 21 August 2009 - 01:55 PM

Please correct me if I am wrong:When flying w/2d, you will either have oval gauges or empty space when in wide screen because most of the panel bitmaps are designed for 4:3When flying in VC, it doesn't matter, the panel will be fine either way. I'm not just concerned about oval gauges, I also don't want the scenery to appear stretched. How will the scenery appear in FSX in wide screen in VC view? Is it the same for FS9 and FSX or is it different?I am planning to move to FSX in the near future with a new rig. In FS9, I tend to fly in 2d. With FSX, I'll probably move to vc only because of the lack of side views in FSX

Jeff- apologies for not responding to your queries before. Somehow missed your post.In 2D Wide screen, drag the panel so that its left edge is at extreme left of the screen. Then just drag the right panel edge back toward the left until gauges are round. This leaves an unused portion of desktop at the right which can be filled in with popups such as CDU, Throttle, COM etc. Awhile back I got curious about using Wide Screens in my triple mon setup so did a mockup display to experiment. The pic below is on 4:3 ratio monitors with the panel bottoms dragged up to simulate wide mon proportions. The black areas at bottom are unused 4:3 desktop for this experiment. There is no scenery stretching distortion in this wide mon experiment.I believe FSX does have side views- at least I have seen a Triple Monitor FSX setup with views LFwd,Fwd,RFwd all synched to adjust for bezel separation. It's my understanding that adjusting the view angles for bezel allowance is done within the Camera settings in FSX rather than in Panel Cfg for FS9.Alex ReidBonanza R09 CYYJ on "Wide Screen" Triple Monitor test bed. Note main panel dragged to left and this desktop space filled with COM, Throttle & Fuel Sw popups. Right mon filled with other popups. Left mon blank space below view could be filled with Kneeboard, Flight Plan or Charts etc.[attachment=8550:Widescre...nanza__4.JPG]

#14 betelgeuse

betelgeuse

    Member

  • Silver
  • 633 posts
  • Joined 11 Years, 5 Months and 20 Days Ago.

Donator

Posted 21 August 2009 - 03:51 PM

Thanks again, Alex. Try and experiment as I might I have not been able to fill either of those black bands with portions of front left/right views. I cannot get the size right and I cannot get the scenery to 'fit' across. Basically there is too much sky in both front left and right views so that the glareshield cannot be made to mate properly. I really think it is too much for my addled brain. I have mastered most else in FS, even xml coding in a small way, but this screen stuff is beyond me. Clearly, Alex, you have special skills that allow you to work your magic on the screens. Thanks anyway!

Supporter.png

 

John


#15 january

january

    Member - 2,000+

  • Members
  • 2,531 posts
  • Joined 7 Years, 3 Months and 29 Days Ago.

Posted 21 August 2009 - 06:27 PM

Thanks again, Alex. Try and experiment as I might I have not been able to fill either of those black bands with portions of front left/right views. I cannot get the size right and I cannot get the scenery to 'fit' across. Basically there is too much sky in both front left and right views so that the glareshield cannot be made to mate properly. I really think it is too much for my addled brain. I have mastered most else in FS, even xml coding in a small way, but this screen stuff is beyond me. Clearly, Alex, you have special skills that allow you to work your magic on the screens. Thanks anyway!

John- don't give up yet! (You are working with Views L&R Fwd?? Not Views L or R! There are 8 different views in FS.)First of all,views L&R Fwd need to be same width as VFwd- before you drag them off to each side. Drag their edges to make them same width- then slide them off to the sides- leaving only a slice visible beside View Fwd.At this point, you should be seeing views L&R Fwd, each as a partial slice beside VFwd. But these horizons likely won't be aligned with the horizon of VFwd.Drag these side views so their tops are at top of the screen.Now grab the bottom edge of each and drag it up or down until its horizon lines up with main horizon. Simple.If the outer view total height is not to your satisfaction, there is a simple Panel Cfg setting that allows the horizon to be moved up or down within the actual view height you wish. Phrased another way- drag the bottom to set desired view height then align horizons via Panel Cfg. You may well be able to align horizons without even using Panel Cfg. but heights may all be different. Post here if you want details of using PCfg. Not complicated.Have a look at the pic I posted just above- VLFwd is about 1/2 (the simulated wide screen) height. VFwd is about 3/4- (there is a wedge of side window!) & VRFwd is only 1/3 height, yet all 3 horizons are aligned via Panel Cfg. ( When you reduce height of a view you save pixels and CPU power!)Hope this helps. The difficulty is not you- it's that I am a poor technical writer!Alex Reid