FSBuild & ASE Wind Aloft Data discrepancies

[bojote 20]

I reported this originally on Jan 2009, in March I contacted Ernie and posted a message to the FSBuild forums, I again tried to get your attention about the problem for the last time in April 2009.I'm back to flight simming, ASE, and the newest FSBuild and, the problem still exists!! and I'm not talking about the 'international' issue with decimal places, its a much simpler issue related to 'interpolation'I just want to know 'how' to solve the problem, thats all.. its really simple:FSBuild reads a snapshot weather file ASE writes... FSBuild, correctly reads the station data from that file to calculate aloft winds, however, if you check the 'brefing' screen (in ASE) which shows the decoded 'textual' data and compare it to the one FSBuild read (from the snapshot) you'll notice winds aloft do not match, they never match!So, ASE is writting a snapshot file for FSBuild to read, but ASA itself is not depicting the winds 'exactly' as exported in the snapshot file, probably due to 'Interpolation' im I correct?Why not create a 'special snapshot' that depits winds the same as ASA does when interpolation is applied? otherwise, the snapshot you are creating is not an actual 'accurate' depiction of how the weather is along the route.EDIT: I re-wrote the post to make it a bit more clear and less 'aggresive'

[Jean-Paul 167]

I reported this originally on Jan 2009, in March I contacted Ernie and posted a message to the FSBuild forums, I again tried to get your attention about the problem for the last time in April 2009.I'm back to flight simming, ASE, and the newest FSBuild and, the problem still exists!! and I'm not talking about the 'international' issue with decimal places, its a much simpler issue related to 'interpolation'I just want to know 'how' to solve the problem, thats all.. its really simple:FSBuild READS the snapshot weather file you write... FSBuild, does CORRECTLY read the data from the file to use as the current aloft winds, however, ASE, 'interpolates' the data, rendering the 'snapshot' useless because YOU are not using that data! so, why make a snapshot of something you are not using? Why not create a 'snapshot' with ALREADY INTERPOLATED DATA! is this that hard?

*******, if someone spoke to me on that tone, I wouldn't bother to answer... Just my 5 cts.

[bojote 20]

*******, if someone spoke to me on that tone, I wouldn't bother to answer... Just my 5 cts.

not sure if I follow... I'm asking for help, not demanding it, probably the post sounds 'aggresive'? if that is the case, then I'm very sorry, but thats not my intention, I simply want to solve the problem and make sure HiFi is 'aware' that this issue still exitst.I guess written comunication can sometimes be confusing and not correctly convey the message (or tone) which you intend, for this particular case, no need for me to get agressive... I've been a happy HiFi customer since ActiveSky, and still...

[JSkorna 137]

Hi,What we need to address are a few different situations here:1. Since I don't know for how long, but for a very long time now our AS weather products and FSB have been able to share data as we have kept the format and the location of the data in the same place, in a file called current_wx_snapshot. That file contains all the current weather data that AS products use. It is updated every time AS starts and every time AS downloads data. That file contains all the raw data for AS and is not generated by AS.2. ASE does not write to that data file, only reads from it. Now, here is where it gets tricky. If you are looking at a station in ASE that is Remarked as ADVANCED INTERPOLATION, then that type of station, and only that type of station, will have data that will not match the current_wx_snapshot file. This is because Advanced Interpolation is an internal process in ASE and the data in this case is NOT going to be re-written to any file. Because it is an internal process in ASE, there is no way to predict which stations are going to be Remarked as Advanced Interpolated stations ahead of time.3. The data is ASE is constantly being updated while with FSB you are just getting data upon the initial processing of the flight plan. So on a 3 hour flight, the data in FSB is going to be 3 hours old once you get to your destination unless you are re-processing the plan in FSB as you fly along.4. I would hope that you are pointing FSB to the proper file, that you start ASE first, let it download and process its data, then start FSB and process a plan.5. You stated that winds aloft never match. Is this with all stations? I don't own FSB, so there is no way for me to double check things. So I would need concrete, clear, detailed examples from your programs in order to compare anything.

[bojote 20]

What we need to address are a few different situations here:

Jim, Thanks for addressing my question, I'll get back to you shortly, I'll take some screenshots so it is easier for me to show you the actual problem with live data so you can see for yourself. Just give me a few minutes...

[bojote 20]

1. Since I don't know for how long, but for a very long time now our AS weather products and FSB have been able to share data as we have kept the format and the location of the data in the same place, in a file called current_wx_snapshot. That file contains all the current weather data that AS products use. It is updated every time AS starts and every time AS downloads data. That file contains all the raw data for AS and is not generated by AS.

Correct, I understand that. The file, is simply a 'snapshot' of 'weather stations' it contains METAR information, you 'read' this file to obtain weather. The same way FSBuild does. Correct?

If you are looking at a station in ASE that is Remarked as ADVANCED INTERPOLATION, then that type of station, and only that type of station, will have data that will not match the current_wx_snapshot file. This is because Advanced Interpolation is an internal process in ASE and the data in this case is NOT going to be re-written to any file. Because it is an internal process in ASE, there is no way to predict which stations are going to be Remarked as Advanced Interpolated stations ahead of time.

Now, here is where it gets confusing. You say 'there is no way to predict which stations are going to be Remarked as Advanced Interpolated stations ahead of time' however, the 'briefing' navlog shows the correct wind information for my route! in fact, it is 100% accurate! ahead of time, everytime.. here are the 'exact' steps I did to reproduce the problem:1) Open ASE and let it update the weather inside FSX.2) Click the ASE briefing button, then process a Flight Plan, for this example we are going to use EGLL-KJFK3) After ASE processes our Flight Plan we see a navigation log like this:Lets focus on any two waypoints, for this example MALOT and 5430N (thats 54N/030W) notice the wind aloft data for those two waypoints:MALOT => 292/375430N => 285/41Both correspond to wind aloft data @ FL340 (as you can see in the screenshot) further examination on the briefing log, shows this:Notice, the 'textual briefing' data, you can see there the same waypoints for your route, notice the winds that correspond to FL340 (which is the lower line on the second column for each of the waypoints)during flight, ALL forecasted winds on this briefing screen will always match current conditions, 100% of the time, no exceptions. they can change slighly between weather updates, but never more than one-two degrees on 2-3 knots max, which is normal considering this was 'forecasted' and the weather is constantly updated, however, IF I don't allow ASE to update any weather and run it in manual mode, the station data will remain the same and never change, so interpolated or not you are showing wind aloft data on the briefing screen that wont match the one in FSBuild, I'm just trying to determine the reason for this.Now, on to FSBuild:Notice the same waypoints that were forecasted in the briefing screen of ASE. (FSBuild is reading the AppData\Roaming\HiFi\ASE\Weather directory which contains the two files (FSBuild needs two) to process the weather info those files are: current_wx_snapshot.txt and wx_station_list.txtNow, FSBuild tells me where it got its WX info, you can see the station name under the forecasted winds.. so we have:MALOT => 248/295430N => 270/36This was using the SAME snapshot file... in fact, FSBuild choose the following stations to 'forecast' the weather: EINN and $272If you open current_wx_snapshot.txt and look for ENN and $272 you get this:EINN::EINN 292330Z 34014KT 9999 -RA SCT005 BKN008 BKN012 02/02 Q0989 TEMPO 1500 BKN012::EINN 292300Z 3000/3024 32015KT 6000 -RASN SCT005 BKN012 TEMPO 3000/3003 1200 -SN SCT001 BKN002 TEMPO 3000/3014 33017G28KT BECMG 3006/3009 SCT010 BKN020 TEMPO 3010/3017 4000 RA BKN007 BECMG 3015/3018 34020G35KT TEMPO 3018/3024 3000 RASN BKN005 PROB30 TEMPO 3018/3024 1500 SN BKN001 OVC003::024,039,03.3/025,040,-04.0/017,034,-05.8/336,012,-12.5/238,022,-23.9/206,025,-36.7/246,032,-54.1/248,029,-57.2/268,023,-52.0and$272::*::*::333,015,01.4/299,017,-06.2/304,020,-08.1/303,027,-12.3/292,027,-25.7/284,030,-38.8/276,025,-53.1/270,036,-60.2/285,039,-55.1see? FSBuild is reading the same snapshot ASE is reading, FSBuild is properly parsing the information that corresponds to the particular station, FSBuild is also choosing 'what' station to use based on proximity, which you pass via LAT LON on the wx_station_list.txt file.So, as an additional test, I decided to disable DWC to see if the interpolation was a problem, and to my surprise, I kept getting the same information from ASE! to me, Either ASE or FSBuild is 'choosing' a wrong WX Station to forecast weather. the FSBuild algorithm is based on LAT/LON and you pass this info!! in fact, FSBuild is using Pseudo Stations created by ASE! I hope this helps clarify the problem...

4. I would hope that you are pointing FSB to the proper file, that you start ASE first, let it download and process its data, then start FSB and process a plan.

I assure you It is the correct one :) in any case here's proof:both the station list and snapshot file are 'fresh' downloaded the moment I start ASE.

[JSkorna 137]

Hi,Thanks for all of that. What I can see is that AS and FSB are using two different ways of determining the closest weather/data stations, so different data is being used.

[aua668 5]

*******,I am quite sure, that the problem is also in connection with the LOCALE setting. If you are using US as locale, FSBuild should find the correct stations near the route (=the same as ASA/ASE) but with an nonUS locale with the inconsistent delimiters/decimal points this leads to wrong interpreted coordinates within FSBUILD and therefore to different stations.See also here: Hifi ForumRgdsReinhard

[bojote 20]

*******,I am quite sure, that the problem is also in connection with the LOCALE setting. If you are using US as locale, FSBuild should find the correct stations near the route (=the same as ASA/ASE) but with an nonUS locale with the inconsistent delimiters/decimal points this leads to wrong interpreted coordinates within FSBUILD and therefore to different stations.See also here: Hifi ForumRgdsReinhard

Reinhard, thanks :)however.. even though my name suggests otherwise, I am in USA, OS is in english language, so I don't think this is an issue with the LOCALE, which I am aware of.Jim, I have the same snapshot file (I backed it up) that I used to make the screenshots you saw... so, let me ask you a question:If I prove to you, that there are stations (NOT USING ADVANCED INTERPOLATION) that are reporting wrong data, will you forward this to Damian and consider a solution? I just noticed that the briefing screen is ASE tells you what stations is using!!! and guess what, most of them, MATCH with FSBuild (not all) but aprox 90% yet, the wind data is all wrong!

[JSkorna 137]

Hi,Post me a shot with EHAM or JKFK having the wrong data and I'll be glad to take a look!

[bojote 20]

Hi,Post me a shot with EHAM or JKFK having the wrong data and I'll be glad to take a look!

Sure.. I will, give me some time... probably tomorrow or wed I'll post a comprehensive analysis.